Nice write-off, but you should have probably waited few months before posting this, otherwise, you probably just added another card or two for upcoming taboo list.

@picollo I wasn't keeping track of the dates for the taboo list, so I wasn't aware. Still, with Taboo being optional, I think it's still worth it to have this out there!

I'm pretty sure the loop as written doesn't work. Once you've put Easy Mark on the bottom of your deck using the Amulet, you should no longer be able to trigger its reaction (step 5).

First a point on timing: the FAQ on Wendy's Amulet is helpful here: "The Forced effect triggers after the event is played, before it is placed in your discard pile." Similarly, you should normally trigger Easy Mark's reaction before it hits the discard (in particular, the normal functioning of Easy Mark doesn't allow you to trigger the reaction from out-of-play areas).

Triggering reactions on events is a little weird - normally things are required to be in play for you to trigger them, but events aren't in play (let's say they are in play limbo), so this must fall under the following category for why we're allowed to trigger it: "Any card that explicitly allows the investigator to activate its ability". Now Easy Mark isn't very explicit in this permission - but my reading here is simple: events affect the game whilst they're in play limbo and similarly you can trigger Easy Mark's reaction whilst it's in play limbo (which is where it is when you trigger it).

You may disagree with the reading of the rules, but reading Easy Mark's trigger as allowing you to trigger it from the bottom of your deck seems an incredibly generous reading as to what permissions it gives you and if you're abusing something for an infinite loop, I think the onus is on you to be sure it works. When a card lets you interact with it while it's in the discard pile (e.g. improvised weapon) or while it's in the library (like the research effects), it will specifically reference that out-of-play area in the trigger. (And to me, that's how Easy Mark reads, but with play limbo instead.)

@Cityface Thanks for looking through and trying to understand it! It's certainly a concern, but it's something I considered as part of creating the loop. The main reason I started investigating the loop was the discussion on Easy Mark, which currently agrees that even on its own, Wendy can use it for an infinite engine loop - this relies on the same underling thoughts.

That being said, there are also points of evidence to support this interpretation:

1. abilities do NOT actually need the indicated card to be in play to trigger, as long as an explicit reference exists. Otherwise, Astounding Revelation/Occult Evidence/Surprising Find wouldn't actually work as listed.
2. The "Self-Referential Text" rule indicates "When a card's ability text refers to its own title, it is referring to itself only, and not to other copies (by title) of the card." This means that the ability on Easy Mark's triggering condition explicitly refers to after that specific copy of Easy Mark finishes playing and resolving. (Obviously, the Golden Rule triggers when "another Easy Mark" is referenced.)
3. In the Triggered Abilities rules, it is clear that you are able to use triggered abilities from "Any card that explicitly allows the investigator to activate its ability." In this case, it would be Easy Mark which explicitly allows you to use its condition on the "After you play Easy Mark" trigger, without ever specifying where Easy Mark is during that trigger. As such, it is not appropriate to make any assumptions to the location of Easy Mark - that would require an explicit reading of, ''After you play Easy Mark and it is in your discard." (That is the normal location during that trigger, not 'in limbo' - after effects only occur after the trigger has been completely resolved, and the Play sequence clearly indicates that the effects are resolved and then it is placed in the discard, meaning it must be there when reaching the "After play" trigger.)
4. The "In Play and Out of Play" rules specify that both "in any deck" and "in any discard pile" are both "Out-of-Play" areas, meaning that 'in deck' is not any more of an 'out-of-play' location than the discard would be.

Given all of that information, I believe there is sufficient evidence to indicate Easy Mark's trigger has no particular restriction on Easy Mark's location when it fires. Both "In the Discard" and "In the Deck" are equally 'out-of-play' for effects all intents and purposes, meaning Easy Mark is able to override the location trigger. In addition, the trigger itself was confirmed when the Easy Mark entered play, indicating its 'self-referential' text explicitly refers to the copy being played, meaning the trigger is valid regardless of location.

I understand your concern, but at this time, I believe I have provided evidence that 'bottom of deck' is no less valid than 'in discard' for purposes of Easy Mark's trigger. (It may feel like it from an intuitive standpoint, but I have not seen evidence to make it practically so.) Please let me know if there is something I've missed that would somehow make the deck more 'out-of-play', or otherwise invalidate the trigger.

" (That is the normal location during that trigger, not 'in limbo' - after effects only occur after the trigger has been completely resolved, and the Play sequence clearly indicates that the effects are resolved and then it is placed in the discard, meaning it must be there when reaching the "After play" trigger.)" This directly contradicts a ruling on Wendy's Amulet (which I quoted in my previous post), which has the same timing but Forced and clarifies it triggers before the event hits the discard.

The wording on Astounding Revelation et al is fairly clear in terms of the fact that their triggers work while they are in the deck. Easy Mark gives no such clarification and I personally find it absurd to draw then the conclusion that the permission is completely open-ended (could we Double, Double a Winging it! that gets shuffled back in our deck and put it back in our discard pile? Does that mean you can look at your whole deck? It's not a search effect.)

But anyway, as the first paragraph established, it is in play limbo at the relevant timing. The word limbo here comes from a ruling on Time Warp (the context isn't relevant here): "It is currently being played while you are resetting things, so it is in an in-between state (not quite in play, not in your hand or discard pile, just sort of in limbo)." To me, the simplest reading is that we are allowed to trigger Easy Mark because it's sort of in play, in a state where it can normally do its event things, rather than assume we're allowed to trigger from wherever even though every other effect that lets you trigger abilities from other zones are much more explicit.

@Cityface

" (That is the normal location during that trigger, not 'in limbo' - after effects only occur after the trigger has been completely resolved, and the Play sequence clearly indicates that the effects are resolved and then it is placed in the discard, meaning it must be there when reaching the "After play" trigger.)" This directly contradicts a ruling on Wendy's Amulet (which I quoted in my previous post), which has the same timing but Forced and clarifies it triggers before the event hits the discard.

Interesting. I did miss that ruling on Wendy's Amulet during my first readthrough for the rules checks, which changes the location of the card during that trigger. However, there's one major difference that indicates whether or not the item is valid in its wording: "Place it on the bottom of the bottom of your deck instead of in your discard pile." An "Instead" would indicate this is only possible when the card would normally go into the discard, and replaces the normal timing.

The wording on Astounding Revelation et al is fairly clear in terms of the fact that their triggers work while they are in the deck. Easy Mark gives no such clarification and I personally find it absurd to draw then the conclusion that the permission is completely open-ended (could we Double, Double a Winging it! that gets shuffled back in our deck and put it back in our discard pile? Does that mean you can look at your whole deck? It's not a search effect.)

We'll have to agree to disagree there - I also think that Double, Double can duplicate Winging It or other similar cards, because again, nothing requires the card to go to the discard as part of that trigger - just to be played. It wouldn't be as effective since you're playing it from hand rather than from discard, but it would still function.

But anyway, as the first paragraph established, it is in play limbo at the relevant timing. The word limbo here comes from a ruling on Time Warp (the context isn't relevant here): "It is currently being played while you are resetting things, so it is in an in-between state (not quite in play, not in your hand or discard pile, just sort of in limbo)." To me, the simplest reading is that we are allowed to trigger Easy Mark because it's sort of in play, in a state where it can normally do its event things, rather than assume we're allowed to trigger from wherever even though every other effect that lets you trigger abilities from other zones are much more explicit.

Time Warp's "Limbo" state is different than the 'limbo' of something in play or transitioning from one state to the next. Time Warp's 'Limbo' is because it is in the middle of resolution (normally putting it play, but paradoxically not able to be 'in play' because it should be reset.). And it's clear by that ruling that even things in 'Limbo' can have game effects - otherwise, Time Warp would not go into your discard afterwards, since it would not exist.

While the Amulet ruling does clarify that the trigger occurs during the 'exchange' between In Play and In Discard, I don't think that changes the end result. "Instead" indicates it replaces the normal timing, and if Easy Mark has the same timing trigger, that means Easy Mark would trigger during the same intermediary step as Wendy's Amulet - meaning the card would still be valid to trigger after the event is played, but before it is placed in your deck. As before, nothing differs about the validity of its 'in play' or 'out of play' state, regardless of the destination at that point.

Thanks for pointing out the Amulet difference! I don't think that changes my interpretation of the results, but it's good to have the appropriate context for it!

The "instead" isn't part of the triggering condition, so has no bearing on the argument, which is establishing when "After you play an event" triggers (unlike e.g. Track shoes where the extra condition does modify the triggering condition).

The absurdity of Double, Double+Winging it! (if the first play of Winging it! gets shuffled in, the second should go to the discard) is meant to illustrate why the game doesn't even give open-ended permissions to mess about in out-of-game zones. That way lies madness! The default assumption in Arkham Horror is that abilities aren't active in out-of-game zones and we should only break that assumption as little as possible.

Easy Mark and Wendy's Amulet have almost identical timings, but Wendy's Amulet is Forced, so will always place Easy Mark in your deck first. (This is not backed up by any ruling but what seems sensible to me is that discarding the event happens at the timing point of "after you play an event", so Amulet is still always first and since you can choose to order the triggers, you can trigger Easy Mark before you're made to discard it.)

I think maybe the right way to think about it is the following: Easy Mark says "After you play Easy Mark" - since this references playing it, it gives you permission to trigger it while it's in play limbo, the same way cards like Astounding Revelation reference where they are when you trigger them.

@Cityface

The "instead" isn't part of the triggering condition, so has no bearing on the argument, which is establishing when "After you play an event" triggers (unlike e.g. Track shoes where the extra condition does modify the triggering condition).

"Instead" is a clearly defined term that states the following: "The word 'instead' is indicative of a replacement effect. A replacement effect is an effect that replaces the resolution of a triggering condition with an alternate means of resolution." In this case, the existence of 'instead' means, "At the exact time you would move the card to the discard, there is an effect which would move it to the bottom of your deck". A replacement of the original effect means that the timing of the replacement effect would have to match the timing of the original effect. This means that the effect on the amulet is a 'lingering effect' that lingers for so little time that it normally has little consequence, but it is still a lingering effect that modifies the resolution later on, rather than an immediate effect stating that you must perform the action immediately.

The absurdity of Double, Double+Winging it! (if the first play of Winging it! gets shuffled in, the second should go to the discard) is meant to illustrate why the game doesn't even give open-ended permissions to mess about in out-of-game zones. That way lies madness! The default assumption in Arkham Horror is that abilities aren't active in out-of-game zones and we should only break that assumption as little as possible.

Again, disagreed - There's a difference between reading something as a neat interaction and declaring all such interactions as overpowered. The power of that is fairly limited given you also need to pay any additional costs again, and it requires you to exhaust Double, Double, repay the cost, and receive the reduced 'not from discard' effect each time you do. It does weird things with the location of the card, but it's hardly the game-breaking combo you indicate it would be.

Easy Mark and Wendy's Amulet have almost identical timings, but Wendy's Amulet is Forced, so will always place Easy Mark in your deck first. (This is not backed up by any ruling but what seems sensible to me is that discarding the event happens at the timing point of "after you play an event", so Amulet is still always first and since you can choose to order the triggers, you can trigger Easy Mark before you're made to discard it.)

I disagree with your statement that the card moves first, based on what I said in my first paragraph here. Yes, the Forced ability on Wendy's Amulet is required to trigger first. However, none of the statements you have provided convince me that that somehow invalidates the trigger on Easy Mark based on the position of the card.

I think maybe the right way to think about it is the following: Easy Mark says "After you play Easy Mark" - since this references playing it, it gives you permission to trigger it while it's in play limbo, the same way cards like Astounding Revelation reference where they are when you trigger them.

Again, refer back to my first paragraph - Wendy's Amulet currently indicates that it does not change the in play position immediately, due to being an 'instead' effect that replaces something at the timing of resolution (shortly after), meaning the state would remain at the 'after you have played it' step for Easy Mark. It's worth noting that the reading does prevent the 'infinite Easy Mark' loop mentioned on the Easy Mark page (since all three would be 'in play' before they all move), but does not prevent this particular loop.

Okay, right, I wasn't thinking about that part. I was just thinking about the timing aspect of it. It's true that Wendy's Amulet is a replacement effect, so the loop should work with you triggering the reaction before it goes on the bottom of your deck (so 4 and 5 in your writeup swap places and there's no triggering reactions from the bottom of your deck weirdness!).

My point about Double, Double+Winging it! was also very much the weirdness, not any power level concerns.

@Cityface Glad we could get that ironed out! And no arguments here in terms of how weird Double, Double and Winging It work together - no matter what interpretation you go with, there's going to be some oddity as a result!

Any plans to update this with the new Daredevil to help set this up sooner?

That's certainly one way to help thin the deck, but the primary tricky thing about Daredevil is that it warrants rogue skills to be slotted in, and options are limited for a low-XP deck. By default, "Watch this!" and Quick Thinking are probably your best bets. (I originally mixed Opportunist and Quick Thinking when I made this deck.) However, I'm less sure what you would actually cut in order to include both those and the two copies of Daredevil without removing either cards which allow you to function while building up, or without impacting other card draw mechanisms.

Feel free to try replacing Opportunist with Daredevil on its own, if only so you can effectively remove one Daredevil with the other. If you're wanting to swap other things in, the first things I'd recommend replacing are probably Backstab or Small Favor. If you have a bit more XP to play with, then you can try looking at upgrading cards into Manual Dexterity (2) or All In.