[Guide] Vincent - Turn One Win!

Tried the card simulator a few times. Sometimes it goes crazy like your example. But It feels like it averages 6 items or so turn one. Still good, but not guaranteed.

4-6 items without a backpack.

+2 items per backpack / Well-Maintained.

Overall very interesting and synergetic deck. Wasn't sure how I was going to build him. This looks fun!

Is there a window to play Well-Maintained between items while resolving Geared Up?

I agree with @William that you don't have a window to play Well-Maintained during the Geared Up play sequence, but I do like its inclusion for things like Backpack, Schoffner's Catalogue, and Bandages. However, it is worth considering that Vincent Lee can take At a Crossroads which, if in your opening hand, will let you lose an action and draw 3 cards. The action loss doesn't matter because you take 3 fewer actions due to Geared Up, while drawing 3 cards is amazingly good for getting more items to play.

@William

Important bits bolded.

Rules:

• A fast event card may be played from a player's hand any time its play instructions specify. If the instructions specify when/after a timing point, the card may be played as if the described timing point were a triggering condition for playing the card. If the instructions specify a duration or period of time, the card may be played during any player window within that period. If the instructions specify both a when/after timing point and a duration or period of time, the card may be played in reference to any instance of the specified triggering condition within that time period.

Well-Maintained:

• "Fast. Play only during your turn."

I can play this during any player window during my turn.

Geared Up

• "Forced - When your first turn of the game begins: One at a time, play any number of Item assets from your hand, reducing the cost of each by 1. During this turn, you have 3 fewer actions to take.”

This is referring to the play action.

• FAQ, v.2.0, August 2022
  • In this sense, “Geared Up” will work similarly to “Ever Vigilant”, and each card put into play with “Geared Up” will resolve fully before the next one is played.'

Timing & Player Window. In the investigator phase there is a player window before each action. Specifically this is called out in timing - 2.2.1

2.2.1

• Active investigator may take an action, if able. If an action was taken, return to previous player window. If no action was taken, proceed to 2.2.2.

Geared up gives you any number of play actions. After each one, you'll return to a player window and have an opportunity to play Well-Maintained.

Cheers.

Yes, I agree that all of those are the relevant rules, but Geared Up does not give you play actions, just like Ever Vigilant does not give you play actions.

@Pugtato

I would like to see where in the rules your reasoning is. To me It's clear from how effects work & the framework is used.

Ex: Enemies with forced engages are not engage actions, but still use the same framework & timing as the engage action. Same is true here. Gear up does give you play actions, but still used the framework as that actions.

Justified in rules...

EFFECTS

• A card effect is any effect that arises from the resolution of ability text printed on, or gained by, a card. A framework effect is any effect that arises from the resolution of a framework event (see "Framework Event Details" on page 24).

Geared Up

• "one at a time Play any number of item cards..."

This Still uses the 2.2.1 (mentioned above) of the "Framework event detail" & gives player windows before each played asset.

There's a couple of points that disprove the idea that there are player windows during Geared Up's effect.

1) From cards like Ursula Downs, Galvanize, Swift Reflexes, we know that to count as an action, cards need to explicitly tell you that you're taking an action, otherwise, you're just performing an ability. If that were not the case, then it would drastically change how cards like Haste, Pay Day and others work. You're implying that something like Ever Vigilant would count as 4 actions (1 play action for the card itself and the 3 "actions" it gives), which we know isn't the case. If Geared Up said "Take any number of play actions,..." when I'd be inclined to agree that they at least count as actions

2) Even in the case where you're given actions, they aren't necessarily flanked by player windows. Those are part of the framework and you can't really mix up non-framework effects with framework effects. If you're not taking an action via the specific step (2.2.1), you don't get to return to that player window, because you're not resolving a framework effect, you're resolving a card ability. It's the reason why playing Swift Reflexes doesn't actually grant a player window except for any generated during the action, such as during a test. You quoted yourself the rule that differentiates card effects from framework effects, so I think the difference is clear.

To address another comment, while some game effects use the same steps for certain procedures (in your example, engaging an enemy), it doesn't mean you can conflate the specific framework steps with actions. Engaging an enemy follows the same steps whether it's an action or not, it doesn't make it an engage action, as you said. In the case of playing a card, same thing. You follow the steps for playing a card, but that doesn't make it a play action, much less part of the turn framework.

To summarize, how Geared Up works, considering just the Geared Up player's turn:

• 2.1 Investigation Phase begins
• [Player Window - Not anyone's turn]
• 2.2 - Your turn begins: Geared Up's effect fully resolves here
• [Player Window - your turn] (This is the only time you can play Well Maintained)
• 2.2.1 - You may take an action, but almost certainly don't have any to take because of Geared Up
• 2.2.2 - Your turn ends

I agree with you that if the text on the cards Geared Up or Ever Vigilant or Scout Ahead said "take play actions" or "take move actions" similar to Ursula Downs or Close the Circle or Eon Chart or Haste, they would follow the framework as you describe. But since they do not have that text, that is not how they function. Essentially, my reasoning is that the card does what it says, and it does not do what it does not say.

"Geared up gives you any number of play actions. After each one, you'll return to a player window and have an opportunity to play Well-Maintained."

This is wrong, as someone already noticed. When the game intends you to take an action, it tells you so. This is on par with the "move" and "perform a move action" distinction.

If you are still not convinced, check Leo Anderson's FAQ. While his ability says " After your turn begins: Play an Ally asset, reducing its cost by 1.", it was confirmed this is not a play action, even if it uses the word "play".

This said, a card being fast and the game being in the requested timeframe are both necessary condition to play a fast event, but they are not enough in this case.

You found the rules yourself:

A fast event card may be played from a player's hand any time its play instructions specify. If the instructions specify when/after a timing point, the card may be played as if the described timing point were a triggering condition for playing the card. If the instructions specify a duration or period of time, the card may be played during any player window within that period. If the instructions specify both a when/after timing point and a duration or period of time, the card may be played in reference to any instance of the specified triggering condition within that time period.

To play Well-Maintained you'll need a player window during Geared Up resolution, but unless you fabricate one by, let's say, initiating a skill test, there is none in that timeframe.

One way it could work is by running Shining Trapezohedron + a spell that is an asset too. The first is not allowed to Vincent, and as for the second, i do not think it exists in the game as for now.

Deck idea is solid, and i like it even without the turn 1 Well-Maintained but as much as would like this specific interaction to work, it doesn't seem the case, in my humble opinion.

i meant "spell that is an item too"

As an addendum, there are cards that grant actions that are taken as part of Step 2.2.1. In those cases, the actions are added to your "pool" with effects such as Leo De Luca, Daisy Walker or The Red Clock and not ones you must immediately take like the other examples I cited.

@Pugtato just for clarity, Ursula, Eon Chart, etc wouldn't follow the framework steps because they grant you immediate actions. See my previous comments for what types of effects would follow the framework.

Also, good call out @William on Leo Anderson's FAQ! As @Pugtato said, At a Crossroads is a good card to add here since it adds an extra 2 cards to your opener if you draw it. I've played with it in this shell and I can confirm it's pretty good!

@Pugtato @William @davilimap

This has gone a little off the rails. We can all certainly agree that the plays from Geared Up are NOT ACTIONS and won't trigger cards that care about the actions you've taken like Haste or Pay Day.

I'm not say it gives you actions, but it uses the same framework as the play action (2.2.1) which has player windows between each play.

Lets look at a similar card: Nimble

Nimble give you three sequenced moves (non-actions).

With your logic of not being able play ANY of the following fast cards until the entire effect completes (completion of the third move).

• Elusive
• Mysteries Remain
• Open Gate

I'm arguing, these moves would use the same 2.2.1 framework for moves which is similar to the plays from Geared Up. After each move from nimble you have a player window and could play these cards.

In regards to Leo Anderson FAQ, that would also imply the moves from Nimble don't trigger AoOs?

Clearly there is a dispute. I have requested an official ruling request: www.fantasyflightgames.com

In the mean time, I'll use the Grim Rule and say I cannot use fast event cards (with non when/after timing) during sequential non-action cards like:

• Geared Up
• Nimble
• Ever Vigilant.

I respond here (and on the card) if I hear back.

Framework step 2.2.1 is meant to describe how to resolve effects, it's just how players take their regular 3 actions (plus any other actions that have been added to their pool). Not sure why it would apply to any play or move abilities? You only carry out this step when taking your turn actions, not when resolving abilities. If you did, why are you skipping straight to 2.2.1? There's an entire framework around it. If you want to perform all the steps of a play, see the Play entry in the Rules Reference.

In regards to Nimble, same thing. It does not have any player windows between the moves and none of the moves trigger AoOs.

I'm missing something here... how do you win on turn one?

Well, throw in as much setup on the table as possible. And then ideally hope to have a weapon in play and both quite a solid intellect value and a repeatable way of getting 2 wild icons. I mean, it certainly is a strategy... I'd never ever call that a turn one win, though ;)

Btw the others correcting you are right, only way to get a player window during Geared Up or Ever Vigilant is to somehow initiate a skill test with your items/assets played (or cards drawn from that that, e.g. draw from Laboratory Assistant drawing a Dilemma or Weakness) or being able to use those to immediately perform an action. So basically only a reaction on entering play is in the consideration at all, something like Laboratory Assistant or the rare enter play skill test possibility like Sword Cane.

If you are really trying to maximize the effectiveness of Geared Up then At a Crossroads is your card. Gives you the opportunity to draw three more cards or 6 if you draw them both without losing any actions... because you lost the actions already with Geared Up

At a Crossroads works with Geared Up, but your reasoning is backwards. If you have At a Crossroads in your opening hand, that triggers first when the game begins. After that, at the start of your turn, the Forced effect of Geared Up comes into play. It's important because the wording of "then" in At a Crossroads requires that the action must be lost in order to draw cards. If you draw At a Crossroads during the resolution of Geared Up, you no longer have the action to loose so you must choose the top option.

"If you draw At a Crossroads during the resolution of Geared Up, you no longer have the action to loose so you must choose the top option."

When resolving "Geared Up" is it not your turn (ie turn 1)? If so, then why wouldn't you have an action to lose on your next turn (turn 2)?

Consider to add Shrewd Analysis: you can add a second copy of Strange Solution for free since it is the only eligible Identified version for Lee deck requirements

Some more shenanigans when you're at it, if you switch out your mag glasses with Ice Pick you can exhaust it for the + one and in the same window switch in with either Dissection Tools or Hawk-Eye Folding Camera to get the passive stat increase and following clue. All while keeping your other hand clear.

@davilimap @Pugtato @William

Rules Question: This is rules question for Arkham horror the card game. There are a few cards that give you sequential non-actions: - Geared Up - Ever Vigilant - Nimble My question is can you play fast event cards between the play/move non-actions? Example: Play Well-Maintained on a backpack in the middle or resolving Geared up. Or Play Elusive, mysteries remain, or open gate between the moves of nimble.

To answer your question(s):

Yes--you would be able to play Well-Maintained on a Backpack while resolving Geared Up, and you would be able to play Elusive/Mysteries Remain while resolving the moves from Nimble.

Sincerely, Alex Werner, FFG Game Rules Specialist

Rules questions and their answers are reviewed by both the Arkham Horror: The Card Game design team and the Game Rules Specialist.

Whoa! That's completely different than what I thought. Now I really want to try the Well-Maintained and Backpack combo! And you mentioned some other ones that would be fun like Nimble and Open Gate. Thank you for asking and sharing.

This is definitely the ruling i was not expecting, but Werner did surprise me before. Thanks for asking, it is good to have an answer!

Now that we know fast actions work in the middle of non-actions, there are some more things that you can do to make this deck even more consistent. I would potentially look to add 2x Tempt Fate and 2x Scroll of Secrets. As per the taboo mutation, Scroll of Secrets action is now fast; so it comes out for 0 and immediately replaces itself, at best it draws into a Well Maintained off the bottom of your deck. The hand slot doesn't matter when you are probably only using it to cantrip.

Rules Question: In the comments of this decklist (https://arkhamdb.com/decklist/view/39640/guide-vincent-turn-one-win-1.0#13124) there's a ruling that seems to indicate that Geared Up and Nimble both include player windows during the resolution of their effects. I think most people have been operating under the assumption that the only places where player windows exist is at the specified points in the phase sequence chart and skill timing chart, and that unless a card gives some other timing point, those are the only times when you can play fast cards, use free triggered abilities, etc. If that is not the case, and there can be other unspecified player windows, including during another non-skill-test effect like Nimble or Geared Up, could you provide guidance on when you can and can't play fast cards and use free triggered abilities? (for reference, I think the previous understanding would have been that Geared Up triggers at 2.2, so you have a player window before and after it, but not during)

Response: We were unaware of such a reaction until you sent this to us, so thank you for that. We have come to realize that the ruling we made for fast cards was incorrect with the rules as written, and led to consequences we weren’t intending. We apologize for misleading fans.

The rules of when to play fast cards should follow what’s written in the Rules Reference.

To recap and clarify the initial question, a fan was wondering if Well-Maintained · ArkhamDB can be played while resolving Geared Up · ArkhamDB, and the answer is no, because Well-Maintained needs to be played during a player window of its specified period of time (the player’s turn). It was a similar situation with Nimble · ArkhamDB and Elusive · ArkhamDB where Elusive cannot be played outside of a player window, so it cannot be played while resolving Nimble.

This will override the earlier ruling.

Update from Alex (a.k.a Official Arkham Ruling):

I’m sending this email to inform you that we are retracting the ruling made in the email below. The results of the ruling led to consequences that weren’t in line with what we wanted for the game, nor did it follow the actual written rules for playing Fast cards. We unfortunately missed this earlier and we apologize for misleading you.

The current ruling to your question is as follows:

“’If the instructions [on a fast event card] specify a duration or period of time, the card may be played during any player window within that period.’ Well-Maintained must be played during a player window on your turn, so you could not play it while resolving Geared Up. Similarly, you cannot play Elusive/Mysteries Remain/Open Gate while resolving the movements on Nimble.”

Sincerely,

Alex Werner & the Arkham Horror team

@CalprinicusPersonally, I sincerely suggest that you update this ruling retracted in time in the comments of [Geared Up]zh.arkhamdb.com

Hi, just noticed schiffners catalogue is missing from the zero DP version, is this intentional?

(I meant to say zero XP)

Hello, Unless I'm mistaken, Vincent Lee can't integrate in his deck the "Strange Solution" XP (he can only have Seeker cards from 1 to 3 xp) !

@nox His deck building allows it: "cards that "heal damage" level 0-5" You can only upgrade into the Strange Solution that heals damage, Restoration Concoction.

Oh yes, that's right! Thanks @Calprinicusfor your lights !

Thanks for sharing this deck. I’m currently playing with few small modifications as I don’t have all the cards. Also slightly more clues getting cards.

It is working well but the luck you have on turn 1 really make difference, no backpack and Schoffner really hurt.

Also one small issue I have is failing investigaton tests because I run out of damage to heal or run out of healing cards to get on the mend.

But its still a strong deck which is different and fun to play.

Lol you got called out for this deck in the recent update. Nice!

@Dmcandrew90

I did see that!

"Some other cards weren’t necessarily above the power curve, but unlocked new (and sometimes bonkers) plays, such as Geared Up. Playing a bunch of discounted Item assets turn one with this card feels great, but it was never the intent to enable an investigator to, say, play half their deck on their first turn. (Yes, someone did it with Backpacks. You know who you are.)"

www.fantasyflightgames.com

Hi, good reading! Are there any adjustment of the deck on the nerfed Geared Up Taboo and the retracted ruling above? I want to play Vincent and really want to test this deck out.