The (Mostly) Holy Father, a.k.a. Miracle Mateo

Card draw simulator

Odds: 0% – 0% – 0% more
Derived from
None. Self-made deck here.
Inspiration for
Father thou art in heaven.......... 0 0 0 2.0
The mostly hole Huuse 0 0 0 1.0
Kevin's Miracle Mateo 0 0 0 1.0

casanunda · 361

Overview

This is an attempt at a different kind of Mystic, one that:

a) is less reliant on heretical spells for clue gathering,

b) aims for consistency, similar to Jim,

c) is fun to play, with some nice janky combos, and

d) increases Mateo's odds of pulling , because it's awesome.

So Spike, stop reading; Johnny, carry on. Since the holy father is weak in combat, we run a few offensive spells to smite Those Who Have Been Naughty In His Sight, but in general the deck relies on one of the newer Mystic mechanics, revealing additional tokens from the chaos bag. This suits Mateo well, as he no special synergy with spells (apart from extra XP), while he wants to draw as many tokens as possible. You could also run this shell of cards out of Jim fairly easily with a few modifications. I have only run the deck a few times solo with mixed results on Curtain Call, but I do think it will be better in multiplayer, where it has a little more time to set up the combos.

The Key Cards:

Ritual Candles: For those who don't know, the Reaction of this card is based on when a token is revealed, not resolved. [EDIT: This is NOT the official ruling; see the comments below. The official ruling does invalidate the usage of Ritual Candles to a large degree, but most of the other interactions described below still do hold.] That means that the more tokens we reveal, the greater the chance of getting the bonus (or even getting +2 or higher), even if we don't resolve the extra tokens. Recall the Future also has similar text, and would be a good early upgrade. This effect plays well with:

Dark Prophecy: The candles help to mitigate the drawback of this card; the fact that we generally have to resolve a "bad" token. It is also entirely possible to get +2 or higher for a key check with the candles out, almost assuring a -1 or better in most scenarios, thus helping fulfill the objective of being consistent. This card also plays well with Defiance and Song of the Dead. Just don't use it with Shrivelling!

Olive McBride (Alyssa is a proxy here): The church has come a long way since those witch-burning days, now we choose to employ one instead. Her ability does work extremely well with this strategy of revealing extra tokens, and she is a nice sanity soak for only 2 resources. Note that she also works very well with Mateo's ability; if you pull the as one of the three tokens, you automatically pass the check regardless of what else you pull. No other investigator able to play Olivia can claim this.

Grotesque Statue: One of the first upgrades to go after, this does combo with the candles and is just a great card for consistency. We have to be a bit careful with Hand slots here (due to candles), but since the Codex and the Statue are both not going to stick around for long, we shouldn't run into too many cases where we want to grow extra limbs.

The rest of the cards are generally standard Mystic fare which can be tuned a variety of ways for more combat or more investigation. Some comments on the includes:

St. Hubert's Key over Holy Rosary since we can then investigate reliably without relying on Rite of Seeking.

Song of the Dead is included to provide more consistent access to combat spells since the deck does not run Arcane Initiate, and has good synergy with our revealing extra tokens tech. In fact, with Olive, your chances of pulling from the Forgotten Age bag are about 40%. With Dark Prophecy, it's about 60%!

Shrivelling could easily be dropped if combat isn't a high priority. I would suggest removing it and Uncage the Soul for Alyssa Graham and Flashlight if you want better cluevering. Upgrades would then include a single Charisma.

Protective Incantation. The key cards above work even better when the chaos bag is "nicer", since you technically are improving your chances of pulling something bad.

The inclusion of Uncage the Soul might seem a bit strange, but since it has for icons, it can be used as a Guts if no Shrivelling is available. It's also there for future proofing, just in case some interesting Spells or Rituals are released.

Possible upgrades:

  1. Delve Too Deep -> Grotesque Statue (8 xp)
  2. Arcane Studies -> Recall the Future (2 xp)
  3. Unexpected Courage -> Seal of the Elder Sign (5/10 xp)
  4. Shrivelling (3/6 xp)
  5. Ward of Protection(2/4 xp)
  6. Fearless (2/4 xp)

The Math

Here's a link to a spreadsheet with most of the odds:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14-hKNw59BwHK79ROTsHSRwXlRIfg8MOCg4C3E5cBxRA/edit?usp=sharing

Most columns should be self-explanatory. "Difficulty" here is actually difficulty - skill, so a +2 is a difficult check while -5 is very easy. I felt this range is more than large enough to get some idea of how the cards can increase your odds. Since the value typically changes within a scenario, 2 values are included for comparison. Jim is also included as a comparison. There are three pages of tables, based on different chaos bag compositions, just to get an idea of how this affects the results. Some key findings include:

  • Candles by themselves do very little (we kinda knew that already).
  • Olive can actually HURT your chances when used in certain situations. She is generally more effective for checks of difficulty 0 or higher, and especially effective for pulling off a miracle; a check with a difficulty that is at least 2 higher than your skill.
  • The combination of the two is fairly effective at increasing odds, but essentially amounts to roughly +1 skill for a single check a turn. This is probably a good rule of thumb.
  • Jim is more consistent at hitting zero or even +1 with this package, but since his is only +1, he can't pull off the miracles that Mateo can. How thematic.
  • The tables do not express the increased chances of pulling , which should happen when using [Olive McBride](/card/04197) and [Grotesque Statue](/card/01071). I may add this to the results at some point.

In conclusion, I'm not sure exactly how effective all this tech is, but it is something a little different, and hopefully somebody will try to perfect it. I do feel that there is more support coming for this mechanic, so it should make the upcoming packs a little more exciting. Thanks for reading my silly idea.

15 comments

May 20, 2018 matt88 · 2967

I like the idea of using Olive McBride in conjunction with Song of the Dead. This could work well on Jim. Maybe he doesn't even need the Statue anymore with her (thus save 8 XP).

May 20, 2018 casanunda · 361

Certainly, worth a shot, but it does play pretty well with the Candles. Then again, I tend to go overboard with the combos (A combos with B which combos with C and so forth and so on), so it may not be worth it. Olive is also only usable for 1 check a turn, so having the Statue would be useful if you want to pull off several fights or investigates.

May 20, 2018 StartWithTheName · 63514

I’m afraid Ritual Candles don’t trigger from any token that are ignored after they are revealed. So they do boost twice on Olive McBride since they two revealed tokens stay in play. But they never boost more than once on Grotesque Statue or Dark Prophecy for example. There are occasional exceptions from token effects like the hard/exporter mode in The Gathering which cause another token to be revealed but you still get the +1 from the symbol itself irrespective of when the next token is.

May 20, 2018 casanunda · 361

I can't seem to find that ruling, neither in the FAQ or on either forum. It's on the entry for the card on this site, but that seems to be the only source I can find. In any case, it seems awfully counter-intuitive based upon the wording of the card, I'm curious to see Matt's reasoning (so I can promptly disagree and house rule it ;)).

May 20, 2018 jd9000 · 71

Are we even sure it gives more than +1? According to the rules, 'a' means 'one or more'. If that's the case, you would get the same bonus irregardless of the # of tokens resolved.

May 20, 2018 casanunda · 361

It depends on when the reaction could be triggered. If each reveal is a separate triggering event, then you could get more than +1:

Reveal token 1 -> Trigger candles. Reveal token 2 -> Trigger candles, etc.

If you have to reveal them all before triggering the reaction, then it would work as you suggest. I'm just not sure why it would.

Imagine a card that said "Gain 2 resources." vs. "Gain 1 resource. Gain 1 resource". Reactions to gaining any amount of resources could only trigger once in the first case, and twice in the 2nd, by my understanding of the rules.

May 20, 2018 StartWithTheName · 63514

The ruling I was speaking to came up in response to Grotesque Statue. Arkhamdb has an FAQ on the statues page. I suppose I’ve not checked it in reference to the other cards. But the wording is sufficiently similar I think. Feel free to check ofc. Or tbh house rule it. It’s a game after all. Something needs to be done to make candles less terrible one day I recon. Bit of a missed opportunity I feel.

May 20, 2018 casanunda · 361

Yeah, that's the ruling I saw, but I can't find the original quote from Matt. I assume that there was some rationale provided, I just want to know what it is. It might have to do with the "After" trigger on Candles. And I agree about making candles less terrible, this seemed like a fun mechanic to abuse, and it's not even remotely overpowered.

May 20, 2018 Django · 4854

I think the breaking point with the candles is the trigger word "after", from "nested sequences":

Each time a triggering condition occurs, the following sequence is followed: 1) execute “when...” effects that interrupt that triggering condition, (2) resolve the triggering condition, and then, (3) execute “after...” effects in response to that triggering condition.

You can use the candle each time the triggering condition is met (relevant token revealed), not the full effect of the revealing cards, which ignore most of them.

I think the same goes for The Chthonian Stone, you have to put it back into your hand even if you ignore the revealed token later.

May 20, 2018 StartWithTheName · 63514

Im not sure if or where theyre published, but the line above the FAQ says: "taken from the official FAQ or FFG's responses to the official rules question form". Essentially someone has asked (albeit in reference to the tokens having a negative impact) and Zooeyglass who updates the FAQs has simply transferred the ruling over. Iv sent him a message to see if he knows where these things get published. There may be some neuance in the wording that differentiates. you never know.

May 20, 2018 StartWithTheName · 63514

A very quick response on the Mythosbusters Discord. Apparently the FAQs on here are taken from emails from Matt. As it happens BDflory who asked the orignial question managed to find the original email and sent this:

"You are correct. If a token is “canceled" or “ignored” in its entirety (such as through Wendy’s ability or Grotesque Statue’s ability), you should treat that token as if it had never been revealed at all. All of the token’s effects are canceled or ignored, and any effects that would trigger off of that type of chaos token being revealed (like Baseball Bat) do not trigger.

However, when a token is only partially ignored or canceled (for example, if a card effect said “Ignore this token’s modifier,” or Defiance, which says “Cancel the effects of the chosen symbol”), that is a different story. In this case the token is still considered to have been revealed. In such a case, effects that would trigger off of that type of token being revealed would trigger."

Shame tho. I wish it worked the other way tbh. On paper it doesnt look brokenly strong. It just looks fairly reasonable and quite fun. I wouldn't feel any guilt if you were to house rule it if i were you like. The game is for entertainment afterall :)

May 20, 2018 casanunda · 361

Wow, that was quick. It's an interesting ruling, it does seem a tiny bit arbitrary, so I don't feel bad about house-ruling it. I'll make a note in the description. Thanks for all the help with the rules confirmations!

Jun 05, 2018 KJGriffin11 · 1

quick question, why do you have 2 codex of ages? you can only have 1

Jun 07, 2018 casanunda · 361

The site added them automatically when I made the deck, I was unable to change it. I assume it has been updated since then.

Sep 27, 2018 leikos · 1

@casanundacan i ask what u would recommend as a replacement for delve too deep? because im not a fan of it.