Norman Withers: What does this card even do?

Card draw simulator

Odds: 0% – 0% – 0% more
Derived from
None. Self-made deck here.
Inspiration for
Norman Withers Dunwich solo 2 hand 0 0 0 1.0

yancyq · 259

When I first saw the ArkhamDB spoiler for Norman Withers I was pretty excited to see an investigator with an ability that mimicked one of my favorite Magic the Gathing cards: Future Sight! I also assumed that there was a typo with his upgrade path. Why would a seeker only be able to upgrade from the mystic card card pool? A few weeks later, holding the actual card in my hand I can confirm that this is true. Undeterred, I decided to build a deck and test it solo in the Night of the Zealot campaign.

The Process

Before I go into the deck let's examine Norman's pros and cons:

Pros

  • Norman has a great ability that cycles through his deck and increases the efficiency of his cards
  • Great intellect and decent will stats
  • Split the Angle lets Norman cycle through his deck and potentially remove troublesome encounter cards. StA is also a spell which means you can dig for it with Arcane initiate! Also note that it doesn't take up a spell slot so you can triple wield StA, Shrivelling, and another spell like Song of the Dead if need be
  • Vengeful Hound is a weakness enemy that has low fight, low hp, and is not a hunter, making it extremely manageable.

Cons

  • Norman's a lover, not a fighter. His low strength means that he won't be winning any fights or kicking down any doors without serious help
  • Norman pinched a nerve in yoga class and the resulting impediment to his agility means that he has trouble escaping even the slowest and clumsiest of enemies
  • Norman's ability doesn't support teammates or accelerate the act deck
  • Doesn't have access to broken high level seeker cards
  • Doesn't want to play skills because they effectively block his special ability

Seekers tend to fill one of 2 functions in Arkham horror: as a support for teammates (a la Minh) or to boost tempo by efficiently collecting clues and advancing the act deck (a la Rex) or a little bit of both (a la Dasy). Seeker cards tend to be weak at level 0, but gain access to some of the strongest cards in the game once (Higher Learning, acid, Cryptic Research, etc) they get some xp under their belts. Seekers tend to supplement their weaker level 0 card pool with stronger cards from their 2nd class and/or skill cards to support fellow investigators and help them survive early scenarios. So Norman is a bit of a paradox... He's a seeker who doesn't play well with others (his ability only benefits himself, he doesn't want to run skill cards because they gum up his plans, and Split the Angle's effect actually gets less significant with each additional player). He also struggles to generate tempo, he doesn't have access to Higher Learning, Archaic Glyphs or even upgraded deduction. It feels clunky to run Mystic tempo cards like Right of Seeking and Drawn to the Flame as they bypass his one exceptional stat: his intellect and take up extremely valuable level 0 Mystic card slots.

Ok, Norman fails at the traditional seeker plan. How does he do as a mystic? Unfortunately, not great. Mystics typically function as a jack-of-all-trades with strong level 0 cards that generate tempo in combat and clue-gathering while their best level 1+ cards tend to be upgrades of level 0 cards. Unfortunately, Norman can't really commit to this plan either since he can only run 5 level 0 Mystic cards max at any given time.

Norman can't go full Seeker or full Mystic so we're going to have to get creative with our card choices...

Building the Deck

Good Cards

Let's start by finding cards that have good synergy with with Norman's ability.

low cost cards - 1 cost cards become 0 cost cards, 2 cost cards become 1 cost cards that's a discount of 100% and a 50%, respectively so the lower the cost, the better

fast cards - Ideally you want to use Norman's ability every turn to get the most out of it. This is easiest when the card on top of your deck doesn't cost an action or trigger an attack.

Working a Hunch - Imagine if Working a Hunch only costed 1 resource and also had "draw a card" attached to it. This is basically what it becomes when it's on top of your deck. It also helps Norman with tempo which he sorely needs.

Arcane Initiate - I notice a lot of Norman lists running Scrying. Imagine if Scrying could be used an infinite number of times without costing an action. Well, there's no need to imagine because here it is! She digs for Shrivelling and Split the Angle! She can shuffle your deck if the top card is unfavorable! She can soak damage and horror! She does all of this at the cost of only 1 (or 0!) resources!

Mind Over Matter - This card is really good for Norman. It lets you evade enemies and/or saves you a Shrivelling charge when facing an enemy with an odd number of health. And it gives Norman a chance to win Strength and Agility tests that would basically be autofails otherwise.

Meh Cards

Due to his limited card pool Norman needs to run cards that go against his ability usage and deck construction.

Deduction - This has antisynergy with Norman, but is needed for tempo.

Shrivelling - A must for solo play. Ideally, Norman wouldn't run any upgradeable level 0 Mystic cards, but Norman can't run so he has to fight, and he can't fight without Shrivelling.

Traps

A few cards that seem useful for Norman, but are too costly in time/resources.

card draw - Card draw is a little redundant for Norman. Cards are more optimally played from the top of his deck than from his hand plus he doesn't have access to Higher Learning so hand size is not a concern.

Scrying - This card is definitely at its best with Norman, but it still runs into the same problems with Norman that it does with other investigators. It's incredibly slow. An action is a steep price to pay when there are few players, and the higher the player count, the more Scrying's effect on the encounter deck gets marginalized. If you're scrying your own deck, you're better off just running Arcane Initiate. The uncertainty is worth the free unlimited activations.

Blinding Light - Out of all the investigators that can run it, Norman probably needs it the most. There are occasionally times when you want/have to evade instead of attack. Unfortunately, it doesn't help you if you need to evade more than one enemy and the chaos penalty is way too harsh for its marginal effect. Stick with Mind Over Matter.

Alyssa Graham - At first glance this seems like a card that is made for Norman, but let's compare her to her main competition, Arcane Initiate. The obvious difference is resource cost: 0-1 vs. 3-4 AI wins. When it comes to manipulating your deck (changing the top card, digging for Shrivelling, etc) AI is way better because she digs 3 cards deep, doesn't cost a doom counter to activate her ability. AG will also never bury a weakness for Norman since they are automatically drawn when revealed. Ok, so AG's ability isn't great when she targets Norman's deck what about the encounter deck? She actually does combo well with Split the Angle, giving a free peak at the top card of the encounter deck. While discarding problematic encounters is useful, I think that finding Shrivelling is a higher priority.

Keeping the above in mind, I came up with this deck and ran it through the Night of the Zealot Campaign on easy mode.

The Test

Scenario 1

This scenario was predictably tough. I had the classic Mystic dilemma of "not drawing Shrivelling in my opening hand". An early Drawing the Yellow Sign proved more annoying than I thought it would be, followed by a hound that was dealt with by an Anotomical Diagram and some good old fashioned elbow grease. Luckily Dr. Maleson was able to call in a favor from an arcane initiate which dug up a Shrivelling before things got out of hand. Some unlucky agility checks dealt a fair amount of damage, but I had Painkillers to even things out. I managed to finish off the boss with my last 2 Shrivelling charges plus a well-timed plan.

I ended the scenario with 8 xp which I used to bring in a Song of the Dead (replacing a Calling in Favors) and upgrade both of my Shrivellings.

Scenario 2

Scenario 2 went smoother than I thought. I got the early Shrivelling this time that was followed by a Song of the Dead. I managed to question 4 cultists before bailing.

I earned 7 xp which I used to buy a Book of Shadows (replacing a Deduction), a Grotesque Statue (replacing a Deduction) and upgrade one of my Shrivellings to max.

Scenario 3

I mulliganed into Shrivelling and went to work. The encounter cards that I drew accelerated the agenda, but other than that I was able to collect clues safely. Shrivelling took care of one cultist and Mind over Matter let me evade the other one. Chaotic Shrivellings started to take their toll on my sanity, but I managed to stop the ritual and end the scenario.

Conclusion

Based on this initial test, Norman seems he could be a competent investigator in a 1-2 player game. He plays like a quasi-Mystic: he wants to get Shrivelling online ASAP to handle enemies, and use his high intellect and tempo cards to gain clues quickly and consistently. He'd probably duo well with Roland who can consistently handle enemies and take over a share of the clue-gathering. He never felt overpowered throughout the campaign, he just kind of... executed. I probably won't play him again until he's released, but that set will probably have more cards that cater to his playstyle. He's currently not the "optimal" choice to fill the Seeker or Mystic role, but he shows a lot of promise.

Final Thoughts:

  • I used Norman's ability a lot throughout the campaign and it is very useful. I burned through a lot of cards and revealed both weaknesses in all three games and got Split the angle out in two out of three games.

  • Split the angle is an interesting card, but I rarely used it when I got it out. I only used its peaking ability once during the campaign and used its discard ability a few times to change the top card of my deck.

  • Low Agility hurt a lot during this campaign. I'd probably swap out the Emergency Caches (I never played one throughout the campaign) for 2x Manual Dexterity or 2x Unexpected Courage to help with tests and evasions.
15 comments

Dec 31, 2017 theatlas · 217

Nice writeup! Thanks for posting this.

Jan 01, 2018 Gyara2020 · 1

This was really insightful! Thank you!

Jan 02, 2018 StartWithTheName · 64470

Nice deck. Really love the style of write up. Its great to see the logic under the choices spelt out clearly (drawbacks and all) without any exaggerated claims. A lot of ppl seem to just state as many positive angles of their deck choices which can be quite misleading for new players i suspect. It hadnt occurred to me that shuffles were so handy in Norman.

One thing i did wonder was wether you wanted shriv level 0 in there. Once you upgrade to lvl 3 or 5 you sort of loose 2 of your lvl 0 mystic slots. It might be a solo thing though as i can see the need to stack strong damage options in there for your first sc if you dont have a chaperone (for transparency i dont really play single handed solo so this is entirely speculative). Later in the cycle we will also get an upgraded arcane initiate which may lead to a similar dilema. Then again perhaps those lvl 0 slots arnt that important once you get the xp in? Curious to try norman one day. Very curious to see what his non replacement sig cards are like. Im still finding it hard to see a high value/strong combo for Split the angle. Then again as you point out its counterpart the hound is also fairly mild. Weve seen plenty of chars where their ID ability is strong but their sigs are less favourable to compensate. Rex comes to mind.

Jan 02, 2018 yancyq · 259

@StartWithTheName in a game of 1-2 players I think you need Shrivelling. It's the most cost efficient damage source available to Norman. In a game of 3+ players you might be able to skate by with something like Storm of Spirits, Quantum Flux, or Rite of Seeking as you focus on clue-gathering.

While I was playing The deck, the limited number of level 0 Mystic cards didn't hurt as much as the lack of high level Seeker cards. Imagine how strong Norman would be if he had access to Acid, Glyphs, Higher Learning, etc!

I'll probably keep the single level 0 Initiate in the deck when the upgrade is released and add an upgraded Initiate to the deck somewhere down the line during a campaign.

In my experience with Split the Angle, it functions more like a deck manipulation tool. It will let you "draw" a card for free by replacing the top card of your deck. The secondary effect of milling the encounter deck will sometimes hit a problematic enemy and sometimes it will hit an easy skill test so it's more of a 0 sum effect. The combo potential is there, but as of right now it's too slow/costly to set up and even if you do get it up and running it's not a game-winning strategy (you still need to draw an encounter card).

Jan 02, 2018 StartWithTheName · 64470

yes i think your right. The encounter mill is possibly there to give it a little more utility in a combo deck, but unlikely to be a key deck strategy. More of a bonus. That said we are yet to see the support cards that come out with him so you never know.

Jan 03, 2018 fathermiles · 9

Why did you omit Dr. Milan? I usually consider him an auto-include for seeker investigators, since he usually pays back his cost and then some.

Jan 03, 2018 Difrakt · 1268

The shuffle on Arcane Initiate is non-optional, so while it will tell you IF you would have pulled your weakness it cannot help you AVOID your weakness. This is a critical distinction as it’s not a replacement for Alyssa Graham or Scrying, the effects are completely different.

Jan 03, 2018 yancyq · 259

@fathermilesgood question. I actually considered Milan in my first version of the deck, but ultimately booted him for Maleson.

Here is why I don't like Milan in the deck:

  • The deck already has a low resource curve with the vast majority of the cards only costing 1-2 resources. Factor in that Norman already has a built-in discount ability makes it overkill. Norman can't run Higher Education so extra resources can't be efficiently converted into stats.

  • The +1 Intellect bonus doesn't help Norman that much. 5 Intellect should be high enough for the rare Intellect test and Magnifying Glass is sufficient for investigating. Norman doesn't have access to Glyphs so he can't convert excess Intellect into tempo.

  • In my experience, Norman's biggest weakness is his low Agility. Two agility checks can easily kill him. Maleson helps counter this by mitigating more damage than Milan and allowing you to redraw a potentially fatal encounter card.

  • Milan is almost a dead card in the late game. Depending on the scenario, there might not be any clues to investigate for or enough turns to allow Milan to turn a profit. However, Maleson is useful at all stages of the game. You're always going to have a mythos phase which means that you're always going to have to draw an encounter card.

Milan might be good in a 3-4 player game where you're spending more turns investigating and running more expensive cards like Rite of Seeking, but for 1-2 players I'd stick with Maleson.

Jan 03, 2018 yancyq · 259

@DifraktArcane Initiate isn't used to avoid weaknesses. It's used to replace the top card of your deck if it's unplayable (like a skill card) or simply suboptimal for the turn.

Alyssa Graham will also not let you avoid your weakness because if the top card of your deck is a weakness, you automatically draw it.

Avoiding weakness shouldn't be a part of your gameplan as Norman. He goes through too much of his deck to avoid weaknesses. Hounds are the easiest monster weakness to deal with in the game so not worth precious actions to delay with Scrying.

Jan 03, 2018 Difrakt · 1268

I see, the wording was just unclear:

"Imagine if scrying could be used an infinite number of times" is not a good descriptor for Arcane Initiate, but yes both allow you to move the top card off.

Jan 08, 2018 buzard · 1

Norman is an odd mix. He is the mirror of Daisy. He is a seeker and mystic, but has to go big on the mystic side. Daisy is limited to level 0-2 mystic cards, not Norman. With willpower 4 and intellect 5 Norman is good at both. However he has to get XP to get the good mystic cards. When he gets pumped up he is a blend of Rex and Agnes. Get about 10 XP and he should be a real bad ass solo player. A campaign only investigator.

Feb 05, 2018 aleanjir · 140

I think this deck is a little bit event heavy, and has too much searching going on. I just did several runs of The Gathering on Hard with Norman Writhers, Link below. I'd be interested to get your feedback and work together in figuring this guy out. I chose not to use Shrivelling. It was a tough call, but I figured after I upgraded them I'd want new lv 0 cards to replace it so I built it as if the replacements for Shriveling were in there. I'm tempted to go back and include ONE lv 0 shriveling just to try it out, dropping my back up Alyssa, and grabbing 1 Shrivelling, 1 Spirit Athame, and 1-2 Song of the Dead going into the next scenario.

I also dropped Calling in Favors as it never did me any good, and I dropped a bunch of other cards down to 1-of's to avoid redundancy. I killed the Ghoul Priest 4/8 runs with the final deck on Hard, and managed to resign with 4-5 exp 2/8 times.

arkhamdb.com

PS: Was your experience on Standard or Hard?

Feb 16, 2018 yancyq · 259

@aleanjir I've tested this deck on easy and normal through The Gathering campaign.

Mar 15, 2018 Zefyrus · 1

Thanks for the deck and detailed strategy!

Just cut through the first Dunwich Legacy scenario (Extracurricular Activity - Standard) like butter, perhaps with a little bit of luck (was able to bring out magnifying glass, shrivelling and holy rosary in the first round of play). Curious how it will hold up in scenarios that are less clue-finding oriented, but so far a really enjoyable play. Will continue posting.

Not entirely convinced of the Arcane Initiate and Calling in Favors, but I drew very good cards early on.

Mar 19, 2018 Zefyrus · 1

Ended up getting swarmed by all three abominations in The House Always Wins scenario , will try again but perhaps more mystics cards needed.