Neither Rain nor Snow

Skill

Innate. Developed.

Survivor

Stella Clark deck only.

If this skill test fails, cancel all effects of the failed test.

...nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.
Aleksander Karcz
Stella Clark #2.
Neither Rain nor Snow

FAQs

(from the official FAQ or responses to the official rules question form)

  • Q: If I have committed Neither Rain nor Snow to an attack/evade and fail against an enemy with the retaliate/alert keyword, would Neither Rain Nor Snow cancel that attack? I always assumed it did, but I had doubts re-reading the rules because Neither Rain Nor Snow cancels "all effects of the failed test", but retaliate and alert are "after applying all results for that skill test", leading me to believe it wouldn't be cancelled. I believe the same question is applicable for investigations and the Haunted keyword, as it uses similar language. A: Neither Rain nor Snow would not prevent an enemy with Retaliate/Alert from attacking after the failed test. Neither Rain nor Snow would only cancel effects that occur during Step 7 of the Skill Test Timing (Apply skill test results), but Retaliate/Alert triggers after this timing point passes and after the skill test ends. Ruling overturned: We are now ruling that Neither Rain nor Snow CAN cancel a Retaliate/Alert (and Haunted) effects that would trigger as a result of the failed test.

  • Q: A recent ruling on Neither Rain nor Snow stated that keywords like Alert and Retaliate (and presumably Haunted) are not "effects of the skill test" and in fact trigger at some point after the test ends [NB this ruling has been overturned, see above]. This raises three questions. First: what is the exact timing of the resolution of Alert et al. and do other effects have priority over them? Specifically, is Live and Learn resolved before or after resolving attacks/haunted effects? Second: Is there a difference between cards that reference "effects OF a failed skill test" (NRNS) and "effects FROM a failed skill test" - Live and Learn and more importantly, Self-Sacrifice? The latter has traditionally been assumed to allow the committer to resolve effects like Alert etc. rather than the performing investigator but this ruling makes that murkier and calls into question the intended use case of that skill. Third and finally, taking the wording of Read the Signs into account are we now to understand Haunted to be a keyword that triggers in St.6 but in fact sets up a delayed effect that resolves at a later timing point? Otherwise I'm unsure how Read the Signs is supposed to ignore Haunted (which is it's traditionally understood use case.) A: 1) Neither Rain nor Snow can cancel Alert/Retaliate (and Haunted), treating all as “effects of the failed skill test.” 2) If playing Live and Learn, Alert/Retaliate would have resolved already during Step 7 of the initial test, as “effects of the failed test.” 3) Yes, Read the Signs was always intended to be able to ignore Haunted, a “keyword on your location that would trigger during this investigation.” 4) There is also no mechanical difference between “effects of the failed test” and “effects from the failed test.”

  • Q: What kind of “effects of the failed skill test” does Neither Rain nor Snow allow you to cancel? A: Neither Rain nor Snow may cancel effects that trigger during Steps 6 & 7 of a failed skill test. This may include keywords such as alert, retaliate, and haunted, as well as negative effects on the scenario reference card that might trigger as a result of the failed skill test. - FAQ, v.2.1, August 2023

Last updated

Reviews

Can't argue with getting 3 copies of a skill in your deck. The ability to cancel the effects of a failure are really just icing on the cake. In addition, it is a Survivor card, and an innate skill, so it can be recurred with either Resourceful or True Survivor.

I mean, really, what more could you want?

Zinjanthropus · 227

Listen, and understand. Stella Clark is out there, she can't be bargained with, she can't be reasoned with, she doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear, and she absolutely will not die............EVER.

If for some reason you feel like 3 copies of this aren't enough, upgrade into Grisly Totem (3) and become the immovable object.

Erdjo · 324
If I understand the mechanics correctly, "Neither Rain nor Snow" would not be returned to your hand by Grisly Totem, because the return is an effect of the failed test, which is cancelled by the skill card. — Gobblegobble · 1
Incorrect. Since they have the same triggers, you can choose the order that the card effects trigger. — brandonglee123 · 1
For example, suppose you commit "Take Heart", "Neither Rain nor Snow", and use the effects of Grisly Totem (3) on a nasty encounter card and autofail. You can choose to trigger Take Heart first, then Grisly Totem, then Neither Rain Nor Snow to cancel the encounter card failure! — brandonglee123 · 1
But if you trigger grisly totem first and return NRNS back to hand, does NRNS still cancel failure effects? — niklas1meyer · 1
niklas1meyer: As I understand it, unlike Silas' ability or Try and Try again, Grisly Totem resolves during step 7 of the skill test, which is "apply skill test results." Given the wording of Grisly Totem and Neither Rain Nor Snow are both "if this skill test fails," I would assume that cancelling the effects of the failed test would also resolve during step 7, meaning that you could also get them both to trigger. I don't know for sure though. The combo is confirmed to work with Take Heart, at least. — Zinjanthropus · 227
For additional silliness, you could maybe try to convince a mystic friend to commit Seal of the Elder Sign to the test, thereby guaranteeing that you could fail the test, heal 1 damage and 1 horror, cancel the results of the failed test, return NRNS to hand, then get an extra action. Probably not worth it, though. — Zinjanthropus · 227
Can someone clarify what "all effects of the failed test" mean. Does that include effects that would trigger if I drew one of the special curse tokens (cultist, for instance) that might trigger something like taking horror, discarding cards from my hand, etc.? or only effects directly related to a card (like a treachery) — Giffdev · 85
@Giffdev If a token says, "If you fail, take 1 horror," and you would fail the test, don't apply those effects, as they are a result of the failed test. Likewise, Retaliate and Alert won't be triggered on failed attacks/evades. — SGPrometheus · 809
The most powerful part of this card isn't the wilds. It's the ability to basically ignore any encounter cards that involves a test. And it can be committed to someone else's test. These should Only be used vs Treachery cards. — Taevus · 760
Is this card can cancel retaliate or alert or miss attack to other? — williamz · 1
If you fail after commiting this do you get to trigger Stella's investigator ability? (Since it's "after" the test) — OnTheNightrain · 8
You cancel the effects of failure; you don't cancel the fact that you failed. — SGPrometheus · 809
I'm willing to wait on an FAQ clarificiation of timing this to selectively cancel effects, but tangential to that: How the heck do you expect to be regularly getting this back with Grisly Totem - you just gave yourself +4 to the test! — Death by Chocolate · 1447
So if you were to use this on A Test of Will (2) and you were to fail, would NRNS prevent you from having to exile it? — Wolfyjevjev · 1
@Death By Chocolate: There is Drawing Thin. @Wolfyjevjev: As I understand it you can, in fact, cancel the Exile effect of on that card, as it's the result of a failed test. — Zinjanthropus · 227
Does this card cancel getting horror from remains ? So is the respective sentence on rotting remains an "effect of a failed test" ? — fallaway · 1
Yes, if you commit this to a Rotting Remains you are not taking horror if you fail. I do want to add that you CAN'T combine this with the Survivor Grisly Totem, since both cards have the same timing window (step 6) AND they are mutually exclusive. Which is to say, if you fire the ability on the Totem, you return NRNS to your hand, and then you can — Veronica212 · 294
Continued: you can't trigger Neither Rain Nor Snow since it is no longer committed. If you instead use the ability on NRNS first, you end up canceling the ability of the totem to return NRNS to your hand. — Veronica212 · 294
wern212 - as long Rotting Remains are going to be failed and you have already chosen to use GT choosing another icon with committed NRNS for this test, You can with no problem return that card to Your hand. Card has been committed, during and before you did fail this test and it is not any more after you failed. Timing for resolve of negating negative effects and getting card back are timed on same moment and therefore you can chose what is going to be first. — Bany · 14
Wern is correct. If you choose to trigger the effect of NRNS first, it will cancel the effect of GT just as it cancels any other effect. There's just one inaccuracy, "if successful"/"if it fails" effects are resolved at Step 7, not Step 6. — Killbray · 11525
Does NSNR cancel "Look what I found!" or not? — h2ovn · 1
No it doesn't cancel "Look what I found" because that isn't an effect of a failed skill test at all. Look what I found is just something that you play in reaction to failing a skill test and therefore it is resolved at St.6. Meanwhile NSNR can only be resolved on St.7. — Killbray · 11525

There is a certain official scenario where, on the back of the last card in the agenda deck, it just says "all investigators take 100 horror (cannot be cancelled or ignored)" as a means to eliminate everyone and end the scenario.

Imagine that Stella and Roland are doing this scenario and that Roland (who is In the Thick of It) has an Enchanted Armor in play when this last agenda card is flipped. Roland assigns all 100 horror to Enchanted Armor and then has to "Test Willpower (100), if failed, discard Enchanted Armor and reassign the 100 horror", but Stella commits Neither Rain Nor Snow to this test. What happens? Roland should survive, right? Does scenario just continue forever, without an agenda deck?

belphagor · 8
Rules as written, yes, you just continue the scenario, since not all investigators have been eliminated and you haven't resolved a ->R# effect. I suspect that if someone were to contact FFG about this, however, they would issue an errata adding the word "direct" to the agenda card in question. — Thatwasademo · 58
There’s cards with unlimited soak like deny existence and effects for auto success on tests… — Django · 5070
@ Django: "Deny Existence" does not work. Like quoted in the review, the agenda says "cannot be cancelled or ignored". — Susumu · 366
Oh, it infact says "cannot be prevented", which likely should aply regardless for DE. However, with EA you technically take the horror before failing the test, so RAW this should work. — Susumu · 366

Here are some rule notes for Neither Rain nor Snow. Notice that this is NOT offical ruling, but my interpretation of rule book. Please comment if you think something is wrong or another rule for note.

  • You can resolve some fail effects (like Take Heart) an cancel the other fail effects.
    • The fail effect includes "if you fail..." and "for each point you fail by...".
  • You couldn't cancel the failed effects if you return NRNS by Try and Try Again or Grisly Totem.
  • You can play cards or trigger effects stating with "when you (would) fail" like Lucky! or "after you fail" like "Look what I found!". In addition, you couldn't cancel the forced effects with "(when/)after you fail" like Atychiphobia.
  • Another investigator cannot commit NRNS by Copycat. (After FAQ 2.0, this is legal.)
  • You couldn't prevent discarding Baseball Bat with or jamming Old Hunting Rifle with .

Interpretation:

  • This effect is delayed effect. If you confront multiple forced/delayed effects, you determines the order as priority of simultaneous resolution. Therefore, you could determine resolving some (good) failed effect before you resolve NRNU.
  • To maintain delayed effect, NRNS should remain commited to cancel the failed effect.
    • The triggering timming of TATA is preceded, so that you couldn't cancel the failed effects if you return (see next bullet for detail).
    • If you resolve NRNU effect, the effect of Grisy Totem is canceled, so you couldn't return NRNU; if you resolve totem effect first, you couldn't cancel other fail effect.
  • "after you fail (ST6)" is the early time point comparing "if you fail (ST7)"; see the review at Take Heart. When you resolve the effects with "after you fail", you cannot resolve the effect of NRNU.
  • When you commit Copycat, you temporally control the target card. Since the signature card cannot be controlled by another investigator, you cannot commit NRNS by copycat. Notice that I guess the control ruling from the offical guide in wini pack. It states that wini can draw a card when you commit copycat (and another card commited by copycat), and wini should commit 2 cards to draw a card.
  • Baseball Bat or Old Hunting Rifle is not a effect from the failure, so NRNS don't cancel.
elkeinkrad · 485
I believe you are correct on all counts. The key phrases to look for are "if the test fails..." and "for each point this test fails by..." those are the effects that NRNS cancels — NarkasisBroon · 10
Thanks to commit @NarkasisBroon. I'll add this one! — elkeinkrad · 485
this is how I think of it: — zakglee · 1

"As you come into this world, someone else is also born. You begin your life, and she begins a journey towards you. She moves slowly, but never stops. Wherever you go, whatever path you take, she will follow. Never faster, never slower. Always coming. You will run, she will walk. You will rest, she will not. One day, you will linger in the same place too long. You will sit too still or sleep too deep. And when, too late, you rise to go, you will notice a second shadow next to yours. Your post will then be delivered. Please tip your courier."

Incredible signature, incredible flavour. Love my eldritch postie.

MorganCubed · 3