Beyond the Veil

One od the worst drsigned cards in the game. Treachery cards that gice you no recourse to deal with them are a design flaw. The other issue is that for some xharacters this us trivial, while it is an almost guaranteed defeat for others.

There are ways to deal. Cancel the card, let it trigger and cancel the damage, be hardcore and just take it, Alter Fate, or resign. Or just stop drawing cards. I think anyone can do at least one of these. — TheNameWasTaken · 3
I cant think of a single character who is definitively destroyed by this card. Patrice without tech (eg 1 copy of Quantum Flux) still has a very strong chance of pulling her Elder Sign which prevents her being decked out, and draw heavy characters like Wini or Seekers have full control over their draw power. This card has literally never killed me, and it’s not hard to tech against if you are worried about it. And in a game where losing a scenario is nowhere close to the end for your character, I cannot agree that it’s a design flaw. — StyxTBeuford · 1338
I would just point out that while draw-heavy investigators have full control of their draw power, it still potentially shuts down their play style. That being said, needing to choose / build your investigator to counter campaign specific stuff is certainly not unique to Dunwich. — Zinjanthropus · 16
Also just because you have counters In your deck doesn’t mean you have them available with this card. They might be discarded to other milling effects in dunwich... — Django · 2631
I think generally most draw reliant investigators are Seekers who generally are already really powerful without needing the absurd draw anyway. And the more draw heavy your deck is, the more reliably you can find the tech for this before it hits you. — StyxTBeuford · 1338
@StyxTBeauford: While I do agree about Seekers (and they could use deck searching instead of straight draw, anyway), I don't think that Winifred is very good if she can't draw through her deck (The draw is really what makes her so OP). Though I suppose she could Versatile for Quantum Flux pretty easily. — Zinjanthropus · 16
Since this is included with milling effects, it can easily kill any investigator. — Tilted Libra · 8
@StyxTBeuford Have you played Patrice much? You can eaily go a whole scenario without pulling her Elder Sign. And when the only recourse to something is a random chance, that isn't good design — Tilted Libra · 8
@Tilted Libra, Eucatastrophe does wonders for Patrice against this card. There are definitely ways to handle this. It just takes planning. — dapineapple · 1
Ive played Patrice tons, I almost always pull her elder sign before she decks out. If you build her to test a lot it’s really not a big risk. — StyxTBeuford · 1338
Joey "The Rat" Vigil

So, assuming that I'm correct, Joey can discard an Item asset from any Investigator in play anywhere, since unlike Sacrifice, it doesn't say "you control". UPDATE: Sacrifice has to specify "you control" since it's not a cost, unlike this card

This makes Joey a crazy money generator, being able to discard empty guns, spells, and Flashlights at any time in a very flexible way. And since it's not an exhaust, he doesn't have to hold back. Perfect for Tony Morgan who plays tons of guns, and - dare I say it - maybe even better than Leo De Luca.

Nenananas · 14
Got too excited there for a moment: no Spells. — Nenananas · 14
Only the cards controller can use a card's abilities, unless it says differently. But, I expect this to be tabooed because you can get free money with zero costing assets. — jdk5143 · 1
Under Costs: “ Only the controller of a card or ability may pay its costs. Game elements another player controls may not be used to pay a cost.” you cannot discard assets someone else controls to get the money benefit here. It’s useful but not that useful — Difrakt · 746
it would be kind of funny if you could discard any asset in play. you could really piss of your friend who finally just got their Flamethrower it, or whatever — Zinjanthropus · 16
Welp, that explains the difference between Sacrifice and this card... Thanks @Difrakt — Nenananas · 14
Rita Young

Rita is not the 'best' survivor. She lacks Wendy and Yorick’s ability to continually reuse cards they like. (She has access to Resourceful and scavenging, so she’ll get them back, but it often takes an action to replay them.) She doesn’t have the deck manipulation of Patrice, and she doesn’t have Duke to help her sniff out clues.

But she’s my favorite, because she has something no other character has: the complete ability to avoid her problems. Luke might be able to hide in his gate box, but he has to explore new locations before he can access them.

Solo Rita is an exercise in Benny Hill comedy. While her iconic card is "I'm done runnin'!", It should really be Track Shoes. With it, she can turn her first action from evade into a jaunt through an enemy-controlled zone, and to a third location. Nonhunter enemies take one action from you, max. That keeps your hands free from weapons, and while a meat cleaver will be helpful to deal with your low sanity, a newspaper and an Old Keyring mean that you can get all the clues you need. (If you’re going for a cleaver, team up with the other student athlete.)

In multiplayer, you’ll probably want to add more damage, locking down enemies for guardians and basically removing the “retaliate” keyword from the deck. And as you go, you’ll gain access to high-level survivor cards that benefit the entire team. But you haven’t lived until you’ve run around the mad planes of Carcosa, with three enemies and two weakness cards chasing you.

MrGoldbee · 23
I think Rita is my favorite Survivor as well. While I haven't tried it, I can't see Scavenging working for her (because it requires succeeding by 2). My experience with solo Rita was that she was pretty much barely succeeding investigates when she did succeed. She is really good at using Belly of the Beast though (which also requires succeeding by two). I think the biggest issue I found was that she doesn't have very good card draw. She doesn't require a ton of set up, though, at least, so what this really meant is that it's a good idea to bring a backup horror sink other than Peter (Keepsake at L0, Guiding Spirit with xp (it also helps a little with getting clues)). Cleaver probably also helps. I usually did eventually draw Peter. It was pretty fun in any case, and I should really try it again. — Zinjanthropus · 16
Dream-Enhancing Serum

Printing this card was a mistake, it's very overpowered. By itself, this card theoretically allows a player to have about half of a 30 card deck in their hand, and that's without looking at Laboratory Assistant (multiples with Charisma), Arcane Enlightenment, or myriad cards.

So what's wrong with that? Well, once a huge chunk of an investigator's deck is either in their hand or played on the table in the form of assets, there are few remaining cards in the deck, allowing powerful card draw tools like Mr. "Rook", Cryptic Research, or The Necronomicon to quickly cycle through what's left and play power cards repeatedly. The 1 horror penalty for reshuffling the deck can be dealt with by soaking on an ally and replaying it (Laboratory Assistant or Mr. "Rook" are perfect for this).

The ridiculously overpowered The Necronomicon is a prime candidate for this type of abuse, but there are many other cards that become overpowered when played repeatedly, 3x Three Aces which also fuels the draw/cycle engine with resources and cards while auto-passing any test, Segment of Onyx/Pendant of the Queen, Extensive Research (0 cost with this strategy), or Ancient Stone are other possible examples of strategies that subvert the chaos bag by being testless ways of solving problems presented in Arkham Horror. Even merely good level 0 cards such as Shortcut (take repeated extra move actions), Mind over Matter (make any Fight or Agility test an Intellect test) or Deduction (pick up clues twice as fast or three times as fast with Deduction) become degenerate.

On the other hand it’s impractical to hold your entire deck in your hand without incurring tons of horror and having to continually deal with weaknesses. DES seems fine to me- Pendant and Necro however should probably be looked at, as should Mr Rook who assembles these combos too easily. — StyxTBeuford · 1338
We've already seen decks in the past that cycled repeatedly, pre-Taboo there were infinite action decks using either Ace in the Hole or Quick Thinking + Double or Nothing and horror didn't prevent those decks from working. All those cards are on the Taboo list now, I definitely think Dream-Enhancing Serum is a problem. — republiclifehuman · 33
Third on it not being OP. Sure in concept I guess you could intentionally build a deck where you hold 20 cards in hand so you can sprint through the remaining 10, but that’s a minimum of 7 actions *just* drawing cards you don’t intend to use, and that’s assuming you have this card down turn-1. In practice this card is fun but honestly underwhelming, the draw is less likely to trigger than you’d think, and otherwise larger hand size is not really a practical benefit. This card subtly rewards you for keeping cards in hand, but hoarding resources is just not a practical way to win at Arkham unless it has secondary benefits — Difrakt · 746
I think it feels OP because there's a bunch of other cards right now that enable this thing to be set up so easily. Again, let the next round of taboos hit and then we can revisit this thing. Until then, if it feels problematic, don't run it. It also sounds like you used it in Three Aces Mandy, which is about the most broken deck that exists right now and definitely does not require DES to get there. — StyxTBeuford · 1338
I'm not sure I see how this breaks the game. I mean, I hear you on the theoretical nature of it, but doesn't this mean it needs to be tested? Build a deck with this card in it and see if you can break the game. Then come back and let us know. I'm curious. — LaRoix · 5
There are some videos at https://www.twitch.tv/cuherdirah/ that show how degenerate holding most of your deck in your hand can be. — republiclifehuman · 33
So, I watched one of those videos (Threads of Fate), and the player actually ended most of his turns with like 8-10 cards in hand maybe. You can already do that with Lab Assistant. I think the most broken-seeming card being used there was actually the Necronomicon. Combined with Sleight of Hand and KiP you can accomplish a ton of stuff actionlessly. It did convince me that Rogue Mandy is the most OP character though. Pre-taboo Rex doesn't even come close (though to be fair, he was probably never much good in true solo). — Zinjanthropus · 16
I also dont think this card is OP. Its a combo piece, but doesn't do a lot alone and costs 3 ressources which is much of a seeker. Combined with rook it gets much better, porentially drawing a card each time you use his ability, but rook alone is already pretty OP. I also played rogue Mandy through the dreamers campaign and she's totally nuts with these 2 cards. I think i got 3-4 times though my deck each scenario, including the first. — Django · 2631
Yeah, like I said originally. Three Aces Mandy, and really Mandy in general, is beyond broken right now. DES might help maintain her, but it certainly isn’t the most problematic card there- Rook, Necro, 3 Aces, Pendant all should be looked at. — StyxTBeuford · 1338
@StyxTBeauford: Sucks if they nerf Three Aces, though, as it's really only crazy good with Mandy. I've used it in Winifred, and it's okay because she can usually assemble it on her second go through the deck pretty reliably, but it really did not feel broken at all. Can't really argue on those other cards, though. — Zinjanthropus · 16
I rescind my original judgment- DES is ridiculous even without search support and makes any deck dedicated to drawing cards- eg any potentially degenerate Seeker deck- just way too strong. The rate of recycling is so high with the big hand size. I fully agree DES needs a taboo target if not a straight up ban. — StyxTBeuford · 1338
Yes and because ffg thinks this is a big problem, they are releasing a full suite of cards dedicated to support or profit of a big hand size in the Seeker Investigatir Starter... They want this to be a thing! They will not be tabooing DES anytime soon. — Skeith · 1090
Double, Double

We discovered a nifty little combo with this and Scrounge for Supplies. If you can draw both copies of Scrounge, you can double-play one to bring back the other Scrounge plus another card from your discard pile. Then you can repeat this every 1-2 turns to bring back cards from the discard at will. Of note, this combo costs no resources once the Double, Double is in play, and only one action each time you bring back the card (the same one action it would take to draw a card from your deck), although it uses up your Double, Double effect for the turn. The effect is potentially very strong, especially in the late game, but can only get back level 0 cards. Since Scrounge is a pretty good card anyways, it is a no-brainer for any investigator who will be taking Double, Double.

Finn Edwards, Jenny Barnes, Preston Fairmont and Tony Morgan can use this combo, and other Rogues can use Versatile to get the 2 scrounges.

jmmeye3 · 264
This seems particularly strong for Preston recurring lots of powerful level 0 events, such as "Look what I found!", Intel Report, and Trial By Fire. — aeongate · 54
"Dynamite Jenny"? — mogwen · 159
Agreed that this is great with Preston. Recurring dynamite blast would be fun, though expensive even for Jenny! — jmmeye3 · 264
Do you really need both Scrounge for supplies? When you play it, you resolve the first event, you take your 0 lvl card from discard and you put scrounge in discard (point 4th of appendice 1 - reference guide). You active Double, Double (reaction + after means that you have to resolve completely the activation element - so going throw the point 4 of appendice 1 )- you play the copy and scrounge is already in the discard pile. — eldiran · 1