Ancient Stone

Carolyn Fern can take this; she can use the level 1 version because she's her, and this because it heals horror. She can also take Shrewd Analysis, which has a strange interaction here: Since this is the only "eligible" option, she flat out upgrades the second copy for free. The other version isn't eligible because she can't include it in her deck, so it's not included among the random options. Since shrewd analysis is so easy to include in a deck, it's now a viable include for Carolyn. The biggest hurdle is getting the initial investigate off to upgrade the card at all, but she can be built as a solid seeker so that's not such an issue.

SGPrometheus · 847
Wow!! That's huge!!! — matt88 · 3222
Yep, a huge get for Carolyn, but I'm pretty meh on this for everyone else, because the other Ancient Stone is just so good. This one would be great in Dim Carcosa... but so would the other. — CaiusDrewart · 3198
Either we 're getting something wrong about this card, or something's wrong in the works, regarding the site. I'm trying to add this in a Carolyn deck I created and the site overwrites it, telling me I've included a card that is forbidden for the investigator. Any idea why this would happen?? — matt88 · 3222
@caiusdrewart Agreed re: everyone else, especially since pretty much everyone else who can take this can take the other version instead. That's what I love about Carolyn though, she takes so many sub-par cards (First Aid, Clarity of Mind, Liquid Courage) and makes them into viable, powerful cards. — SGPrometheus · 847
@matt88 Well, let's take a look: The first card is a level 1 seeker card, and Carolyn can take Seeker cards 0-1, so that checks out. This card has "heals... horror" on it, anywhere, so that checks out too. My guess is that the (one) guy who does all the coding for arkhamdb hasn't gotten around to flagging this card as obtainable by Caroyln yet. — SGPrometheus · 847
Question: Can the stone heal Key of Ys? — Uncle George the Farmer · 49470
Note that because multiple cards drawn from a single game effect are considered to be drawn simultaneously and not one at a time, neither version of the Ancient Stone can divide a single 2+ heal/damage among multiple targets. Nor, on the wording of the card, is it permitted to spend fewer secrets than the number of cards drawn by the said game effect, e.g. you could not spend just 1 secret after playing Preposterous Sketches to draw 3 cards; it would have to be 3 secrets or else not use the Ancient Stone reaction-trigger at all. — Cluny · 52
@Uncle George the Farmer: Answer: yes, if it's at your location. See the FAQ entry. — SGPrometheus · 847
Could this affect be used to heal investigators character cards at your location? Just seeing if that qualifies — coffeeandgames7 · 1
@coffeeandgames7 Yes, an investigator's card has a sanity value, so it can be targeted. — MiskatonicFrosh · 344
Epic combo from our recent Carcosa campaign with "Stand together": Carolyn draws 2 cards, gains 2 resources, Agnes heals 2 horror, gains 1 resource, Minh draws 2 cards, gains 2 resources, deals 2 damage to an enemy without AoO. — Susumu · 381
Trusted

To be fair, I have not used Trusted in a deck yet. I think it might be worth writing a review for why I don't normally consider it good option, though. I like the idea of Upgrade cards in theory. They are cards that are supposed to make your other key cards better, and I think normally that's pretty good. Of course, that does mean that you need cards to work well with them as they are not much use on their own.

The cards that work well with Trusted are Ally cards that normally have abilities that cause them to take damage or horror as part of the activation cost or have a ability that is triggered by taking damage or horror. Some examples would be:

If you play Trusted on one of these cards, you normally get one more use out of their ability, which can be pretty nice. Anything that adds value to these cards is a good thing in my opinion.

On their own, the extra points of soak are handy to have. In-faction, Guardian cards don't normally need a lot of extra health soak, but most will welcome the horror soak.

The reason I don't normally pick this card is because I feel like it has anti-synergy with Calling in Favors. Calling in Favors is the other card you want to run if you have a lot of Ally assets, but if you target an Ally that has the Trusted Upgrade on it, you lose the Upgrade and it gets discarded when the Ally goes back to your hand. When you take into consideration that both cards cost 1 resource, I personally normally just run Calling in Favors instead, since it returns the Ally card to your hand (effectively healing it) and also lets you search for your other useful allies. Trusted is nice to have, but I don't think it's effective right now to run it in addition to Calling in Favors.

That doesn’t make sense. You play trusted to get more use out of guard dog or beat cop but — Django · 5163
Are too scared to discard it with favors? Trusted served it’s purpose once the ally reached it’s stam/ San Limit so playing favors at this point or having the ally die as soak is very effective. But i don’t think trusted is really worth the deck slot. — Django · 5163
I guess my point is you can run both Calling In Favors and Trusted, but if you do both, you need to wait until an ally is close to defeat before you can use Calling In Favors on them without losing the utility of Trusted. For example, if I want to use Calling In Favors on Guard Dog to get Beat Cop, I might not wait for it to be worn all the way down before doing so normally. With Trusted on Guard Dog, I'd be tempted to wait to get use out of it. Granted, Trusted is fast, so you can wait to play it until you need it, but it has a "play on your turn" restriction that means you can't use it to soak damage/horror during the encounter phase unless you play it in advance. It's not a completely deal-breaking anti-synergy between the two cards, but it's just a little awkward. — ArkhamInvestigator · 313
Actually, trusted makes Calling in favors even better. You can dump extra damage / get extra triggers with the ally, its that much more recilient, thus when you finally get the Favors you can play it on the still-living ally. — Tsuruki23 · 2578
Ancient Stone

An undeniably lovely alternative or companion to Acidic Ichor. It works especially well for Minh Thi Phan, who should be built around card-draw abilities anyway, but basically any Seeker would be glad to have this, if they can spare the hand-slots for it.

Remember that attacks of opportunity are resolved before the effects of the action that triggered them, so simply taking a normal draw to deal the last point of damage on an enemy isn't ideal. Consider having a partner engage it before your turn begins.

Interactions

Knowledge of the Elders makes most of your cards with drawing effects better, including innate skills like Perception, but the clearest benefit comes from Cryptic Research, which temporarily turns Knowledge into a fast automatic three damage. You should also insist your partner get Stand Together, if able, and you might likewise be interested in Lucky Cigarette Case. I don't think I'd bother with Preposterous Sketches or Laboratory Assistant in the current mix, but maybe there's a way to make them worthwhile? If some future card comes up with a recurring ability to draw 2 cards (like, say, a Seeker-ish variant of Dario El-Amin that gets cards instead of resources), Knowledge will truly be power.

Bringing this "weaponized draws" concept back to Minh for a moment, Analytical Mind plus any successful innate skill means two card-draws, and she can get those draws by contributing to another investigator's skill-check anywhere on the table. In fact, if Minh ever has Analytical Mind and Knowledge in play, have her draw the first encounter card - there's a decent chance she can draw and kill an enemy before the Investigation phase even begins!

Alternatives

The main alternatives we need to discuss are Acidic Ichor and Minds in Harmony. The more important of these is Ichor.

The hand-slot requirement might be a deal-breaker for Daisy Walker, but I don't think the hand-slots are a huge deal for other Seekers. Magnifying Glass is nice; Flashlight isn't usually a Seeker favourite; Encyclopedia is nice, although some of its utility has been absorbed by Higher Education; most other tomes aren't that important. In fact, even Daisy might eventually settle on using only Encyclopedia for her free tome action, so even for her Knowledge isn't totally out of the question.

Notably, Knowledge is vastly better than Ichor for dealing with aloof enemies, such as Whippoorwill. It's also nice to have a way to trivially remove Acolyte, and many other one-health enemies, for just one secret. Those enemies also tend to deal low damage, so it's often easiest just to draw your card and take the attack of opportunity.

I think Knowledge and Ichor are on roughly equal footing. Knowledge is slightly more powerful, given its reliability and its ability to function without necessarily taking actions, but Ichor is more versatile, and can yield a greater amount of damage across the scenario, especially if you're willing to commit to Level 3 Emergency Cache. Ichor's also the better pick against boss enemies for its ability to deal lots of damage in one turn, but if you're playing alongside someone who can get Lightning Gun, M1918 BAR, or Chicago Typewriter, maybe that doesn't matter so much. It's probably safe to say "Ichor on Normal, Knowledge on Expert," although in either case I'd want to eventually get both.

I have a slight preference for Knowledge of the Elders over Minds in Harmony, given that horror-removal is less likely to be useful to a Seeker than auto-damage in a random hypothetical scenario, but I don't think it's a slam dunk in the same way as, say, Acidic Ichor over the other Strange Solutions. If I were to draw two Harmonies using Shrewd Analysis, I'd shrug rather than gnash my teeth.

sfarmstrong · 271
Regarding your Mihn tactic, there's a question whether this can trigger on drawing from the encounter or exploration decks. If the ruling on Dr. Henry Armitage is a general ruling ("Unless otherwise specified 'drawing a card' always refers to drawing a card from your investigator's deck."), then they don't apply. — CSerpent · 126
Never mind, I missed the Analytical Mind part of the approach. — CSerpent · 126
Does this work when you draw an encounter carte ? — LeFricC'estChic · 86
Elder Sign Amulet

I know that this is probably not a fair comparison, but I think that interest in Elder Sign Amulet will probably decline now that the Key of Ys exists. They both take up the accessory slot, are both neutral, have the same skill icons, have the same horror soak, and have the same Item and Relic keywords, However, for 1 resource and 2 experience more the Key of Ys gives you a really powerful effect. It's really hard to justify spend 3 experience on this when you can get the Key for 2 more experience because it's almost always worth it.

The advantages Elder Sign Amulet has over Key of Ys:

Key of Ys is so similar to Elder Sign Amulet that if you asserted that the Key of Ys was originally slated to just be the level 5 version of Elder Sign Amulet, I would have been inclined to believe you. Of course, saying that this card is a worse version of what many would argue is the best card of the game isn't really an insult. This is a relatively well-balanced card and I think a lot of people considered it as a reasonable source of horror soak in the core set. However, I think that going forward it will be hard for people to take this card without thinking "maybe I should save up for the Key of Ys instead..."

Very true. But even Higher Education doesn't look so good when Key of Ys is setting the bar... — CaiusDrewart · 3198
In 4 Player this Card is a very good Horror soak for most guardians. — Django · 5163
One downside Key of Ys has over Elder Sign Amulet is that you can't use it to soak a lot of horror in a single turn. Ideally, when playing Key of Ys you want to place on it 1 Horror at a time to get the most benefit out of it. That means that if you want to soak a lot of horror on a single turn, its ability will probably go into a waste. Your approach on getting Key of Ys instead of Elder Sign Amulet is interesting, but if all I'm looking for is horror soak, then I'd rather spend 6 XP on 2 Elder Sign Amulets than 5 XP on a Key of Ys. — matt88 · 3222
@matt88: I just don't think that's right. There is absolutely nothing wrong with playing a Key of Ys and then dropping 3 horror on it right away. In fact, that is pretty much ideal. (The game almost never deals more than 3 horror in one go, anyway.) — CaiusDrewart · 3198
@CaiusDrewart If you do that, then 1 point of horror kills it along with the top 10 cards of your deck and you will probably not enjoy your increased Stats for long. I agree that getting +3 to all skills right away is pretty powerful but you 're in danger of losing the bonus any time. And if you 're playing in the Dunwich cycle you are also in great danger of getting killed by Beyond the Veil once your cards get discarded. — matt88 · 3222
I don't think Key of Ys is the card you want when rampant horror is your problem. As good as that card id, a 2 cost accessory that prevents horror is a far better anti horror option then a 3 cost accessory that you like to dump as much horror on as you can get — Tsuruki23 · 2578
@matt88 @Tsuruki23: Just play the Key of Ys with some other horror soak (like an ally, which is surely something you wanted anyway), and these concerns basically go away. A Key of Ys can provide essentially all the benefits of an Elder Sign Amulet while also being immensely more powerful. — CaiusDrewart · 3198
@CaiusDrewart Wait a minute. I thought that when assigning horror while you have Key of Ys in play, you must assign 1 of that horror to Key of Ys regardless if you have other assets that have Sanity or not, because "you" refers to your investigator in general and not your investigator card. Is this correct??? — matt88 · 3222
Nope, it means your investigator card. So if you have other quality soaks in play, you can sustain a 3-horror Key of Ys for a long time. That's one reason why many people (myself included) think Key of Ys is grossly overpowered. — CaiusDrewart · 3198
Then, that's amazing!! — matt88 · 3222
I have a personal house rule: Key of Ys doesn't exist. — crymoricus · 252
Pay Day

This is practically an auto-buy for Finn Edwards, who can manage five actions right out of the starting gate using his free evade and Quick Thinking, and potentially boost it to truly absurd extremes later on with upgraded .41 Derringer and Ace in the Hole - plus he's the only Rogue who can't get his hands on a Level-4 Hot Streak.

The "end your turn" effect is mostly academic, since you want this to be your last action anyway. It's sad that Pay Day is based on the number of actions you performed "this turn" instead of "this phase," because otherwise you could get 16 resources from playing Pay Day at the end of your turn, and 17 from playing a second one on another player's turn using Quick Thinking, for a total of 33 resources! (Exactly how you'd get 17 actions on one turn is left as a fairly silly exercise for the reader.) More interestingly, the "end your turn" effect suggests that other cards with a "for each action you performed this turn" effect may eventually turn up, and they wanted to nip game-breaking combos in the bud.

So Finn definitely wants it. Does anybody else? That's a tougher call. If you've built your Rogue with decent access to extra actions (mainly using the abovementioned cards), Pay Day is a decent replacement for Emergency Cache - you get better efficiency, but it has more playing restrictions. In that way, it's analogous to Uncage the Soul.

The main problem there is that the Rogue class has lots of ways to accumulate resources, and some of them are 0-level cards, like Lone Wolf, "Watch this!", and Decorated Skull, and Pay Day doesn't distinguish itself that well. It's not bad for most Rogues, but it's not amazing either. If you're running Ace in the Hole or the upcoming Borrowed Time, though, then of course that analysis goes right out the window.

Notably, Pay Day's ability to monetize on large action-counts might induce me to like Leo De Luca again. I don't think Pay Day alone is enough to tip the scales, but perhaps someday soon...

sfarmstrong · 271
I disagree that the end your turn clause is purely academic for two reasons. The first is exactly as you stated - you could play two of them at the end of your once-per-game obscene combo turn. The second reason is that a strong economy card you play last is sometimes worse than a weak economy card earlier that lets you buy and use something immediately. You can’t use the money from payday until NEXT round, which might mean not having that juicy asset out before an enemy lands on your face. — Death by Chocolate · 1489
@Death by Chocolate Good point on your second argument and to elaborate a bit on that, it gets even worse if Paranoia lurks around. — matt88 · 3222
I think this card is more useful for investigators with access to rogue and another class, like skids with expansive guardian assets. I also don't get how can take 17 actions in 1 phase? Finn can get 9 with hiw own ability, leo, derringer and ace in the whole. 2x Quick Thinking and 2x Derringer add 4 more actions outside your own turn. Or did you count Borrowed Time as well? — Django · 5163
@Death by Chocolate, my point is less serious than you think - all I'm saying is that the "end your turn" mechanic is mostly irrelevant because the "for each action you performed this turn" already means you'd almost never play this other than as your last action. That whole paragraph was mainly just musing about why they even bothered with the "end your turn" bit. — sfarmstrong · 271
Yeah, Borrowed Time, plus two uses of Guidance. I also forgot about Police Badge, and you could Double or Nothing on Derringer and Quick Thinking, so technically the maximum is well into the twenties. — sfarmstrong · 271
@sfarmstrong If you’d read my post you’d see two very, VERY important balance reasons why this card would be restricted to the last action of your turn. To elaborate on using economy cards, being able to play Pay Day as your second-to-last card would be a HUGE buff as you could immediately spend the resources - easily worth getting one less resource. — Death by Chocolate · 1489
@Death by Chocolate, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was just explaining that my paragraph was more a critique of how the card was drafted rather than a serious write-up. — sfarmstrong · 271
If I use Fence to give this Fast and play it after three other actions during my turn, does playing this card count as a fourth action? In general Fast cards don't count as actions, but this card specifically says "including this one." — Runic · 1
Say I am playing Leo Anderson and play an ally using his ability. Does playing an ally count as an action for pay day? Super curious and would love to know. — Gyara2020 · 1
@gyarados No. You played an ally, but you didn’t take the ‘play a card action’ which is important because otherwise it would provoke AoOs. Leo’s ability never mentions the word Action, nor does it take one. However Finn’s ability which gives an extra action for Evading WOULD count because it is explicitly an extra action. (Same for Marie, Daisy, and Ursula - not that any of them can run Pay Day). — Death by Chocolate · 1489
Is it valid to use Quick Thinking in conjunction with Pay Day to give you an extra resource? I thought this would be a killer idea but realized that Quick Thinking specifically states "(this action does not count toward the number of actions you can take each turn)." I wondered if this would imply that you could take the action gained if the conditions of the skill are met, but that it would not count toward the number of resources that investigator could gain by playing Pay Day as his/her last action. Is my thinking correct? I actually hope it is not. — zshoness · 1
@Fence, I would say that it would. My thinking behind this is that Ace In the Hole is a fast card and immediately gives you three more actions. This is because you can play FAST cards during any free trigger window, which there is one following player's end of turn. Playing Pay Day using Fence gives you an opportunity to play Pay Day, which effectively gives you an action since the card specifically states "(including this one)." That is how I would play it anyway. However, I am not sure of the intention or if my logic is sound. — zshoness · 1
@Runic, already doubting my thread of logic (especially pulling in reference to Ace in the Hole). I still think you may receive an additional resource using Pay Day while making it fast with Fence. The logic is more about what is spelled out on the card. However, as you stated, playing something fast does not increase your action count and by giving a card Fast you may have effectively deactivated the text on the card because it is no longer an action. It seems like a lot to go through for 1 resource, but that is a potential action (gaining a resource) & fence does cost 3 to play. Still, Fence has potential to save you resources in the long run. That said, I've been mulling this over in my mind for several days now & I think with cards like Double, Double out there now, this may be even more relevant point to clarify. — zshoness · 1
@zshoness I believe the text on the card referring to (including this one) is because you COULD be playing this card as your third action. If you use Fence to make it fast, you didn't spend an action on it, so you would not get an extra resource. However you would get credit for the final action of your turn before playing the Fast Pay Day, so you'd still get the same amount of resources, but with the ability to do one more thing beforehand. — Time4Tiddy · 249
What about the two actions you take with Eon Chart (4)? Do those count as two actions you performed, even though the ability which lets you perform them is a free action? Or what about .25 Automatic? Does an “ability” you “perform” without spending an action count as an “action” you “perform”? — Runic · 1
@Runic — Serris · 1
@Runic So the 1st question was already answered under the other comment. The .25 Automatic lets you perform an ability, not an action. So it doesnt get payed. — Serris · 1