"How do you cycle your deck several times per turn anyways?"

Card draw simulator

Odds: 0% – 0% – 0% more
Derived from
None. Self-made deck here.
Inspiration for
None yet

Cuherdir · 432

"Ok, what's up with all those seeker bs comments?" you ask? "Really, you're exaggerating so much, you can't actually mean you cycle your deck once per turn"

This deck is what I played in this Video and it's what I want to use for a brief answer to some questions people seem to have about Seekers being the absolute best class by far in the game, regardless of player count and difficulty. The whole series where I played this alongside the league of extraordinary investigators can be found here with all relevant links.

So let's show a really conservative card count you can easily draw each turn:

  • 1 from Practice makes perfect that get canceled as you draw your weakness
  • 3 from Practice makes perfect with Mandy's ability. Let's assume you get no Perception but only 2 aces, but the third card is a research card.
  • 2 from Rook, 1 card and 1 research card. We assume we don't hit a weakness here.
  • 3 from Cryptic Research, we play only a single one for some reason, maybe the other 3 are played on your fellow players.
  • 4 from Necronomicon, you wanted that +2 twice for no reason at all apparently.
  • 1 from Dream Enhancing Serum, we only play it once.
  • 1 from Dream Diary, but that's not really a draw, right. Once per turn regardless, let's count it.
  • we assume 2 tests to use Perception on, but we don't play Double or nothing, maybe we're afraid to double the difficulty, it seems like a downside, right? So let's say we only get 2 Perceptions and 1 Eureka off this turn, 5 cards.
  • also, we assume we get no Aces together this turn and don't play any Melody.
  • 2 from Knowledge is Power

--> this VERY conservative estimate gets you 22 cards. Assuming we have our 10 assets in play or hand, we only have a deck of max 31 cards anyways. So we'd need a 10-11 card hand (1 is Rook, 1 is Necronomicon) to draw our whole deck here, easy. That's a veeery conservative assumption and you assume you don't play like half the draw you drew... Yes, this is sustainable, easily. On the upside, there's no cap at all.

And some words about the deck as well: it has so much bullshit, it actually struggles for deckspace more than anything else.

The broken stuff we can all fit into one deck as it conveniently synergyzes well with each other:

  • 1) Sleighcronomicon: play a fresh The Necronomicon every single turn using Sleight of Hand
  • 2) Donut almost infinity shit, it's no true infinity in this deck as you have to account for drawing one treachery each cycle. You play that to double your carddraw skills and Quick Thinking to end up with more actions than before the test
  • 3) Pendant of the Queen. This card is just a "nope" to any enemy that might think about bothering you or anyone on the whole map for that matter
  • 4) Rook + Research cards + icons however many needed
  • 5) Three Aces looping, not only does it pass tests for free, it also gets you resources along the way
  • 6) Knowledge is Power to use the Necronomicon to testlessly, actionlessly delete every single enemy you might encounter. If not for that, it's just a free draw 2 or a clue, anywhere

The generic good stuff almost pales in comparison, like

  • 7) Dream Diary for 4 Wild icons every turn
  • 8) hardly ever take move actions as you have Pathfinder, it's not even broken, just overpowered and severely undercosted
  • 9) Practice Makes Perfect + the very best card of the new upgraded neutral skills, Perception. Not only is it by far the easiest one to apply, but it also has the best trait as it matters for PmP, so you basically get double-draw out of those XP you invested? And it synergyzes well with wanting to take some tests for clues anyways? Nice
  • 10) This version of Mandy used Versatile (another trap card, either horrible or amazing using it for just the right cards, class identity doesn't matter anymore) Hallowed Mirror + Rook soak to absolutely ignore any damage/horror the encounter deck or your deckcycling can throw at you, you actually want to kill Rook if you want to use Astounding for resources. Or if you want to replay him ready to use him several times over in the same round. I never cleared Chronophobia because it's a waste of time
  • 11) cancel every single annoying treachery with Forewarned
  • 12) as many resources as you need with Astounding Revelation and Cryptic Writings. Notably absent is Crack the Case, another over the top seeker resource card that actually is too slow as you can't control it as well as the other two.

This was a true solo deck, if you want to play some overpowered bullshit in multiplayer, you want to have some kind of multiclueing to double, like get yourself some Deductions for 6 clue tests that also double as a PmP target or get some upgraded Seeking Answers for 6 clue tests, but you can distribute those even better. The problem of this deck in particular actually starts to be deckspace to cram all the over the top "Seeker BS" into it, there's just too much to do conveniently, maaaaybe you'd want more than 30 cards Mandy? (no, not if you want to be efficient, no:)

True Abomination

And to end up with more banter from the discord server:

Rook TabooOh No, Not AgainEverything is Cuherdir

Sep 17, 2020 josephmeleca · 1

You're secretly a Mandy main. You resulted in Whinging-It being a thing so that you can keep Mandy relevant in everyone's minds who you secretly wanted to hype all this time. You say you hate how broken Mandy is, yet you jump to the opportunity to 'demonstrate' her for everyone to see.

Does it ever get tiring trying to start this conversation everyday?

Sep 17, 2020 mattastrophic · 1706


Sep 17, 2020 MOTUX · 6184

@josephmeleca Cuherdir gets some enjoyment out of exploiting the game to its fullest. That also happens to coincide with showcasing the the bonkers things Seekers can do. Every community has someone like Cuherdir, and I think he's being a good sport about it and not just showing off.

It's also pretty unfair to pin Whinging-It on Cuherdir alone, or to insinuate that Whinging-It is necessarily a bad thing. In fact, Whinging-It was created specifically to accommodate people who don't want to constantly hear about how Seekers are apparently broken; if that description fits you, then you are free not to comment, mute whinging it, and otherwise ignore it.

Sep 17, 2020 gowonnie · 32

There's a massive disconnect between "showcasing" Mandy's strengths and then spamming those custom card memes about Mandy at the end of the deck guide. Its very "Look at how good my build it, but if you attempt the build, you just like to play the game ez-mode like a scrub."

I think that's why @josephmeleca is so annoyed. Its the fact that those memes strike up such strong resentment towards the cyclical whining about Mandy/Seekers that was supposed to be hidden away in Whinging-It, yet are being blasted in deck guides on arkhamdb. Cut the custom memes, keep your personal Seeker-shaming opinions to private discord channels, and people will be less upset.

Sep 17, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

@josephmeleca Nah, I'm good. I have the stamina, don't worry :D

Sep 17, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

@gowonnie I don't think posting a deck once is spamming anything.

I've got the question so many times, it's literally the name of the deck. And I think it conveys the gist of the description well enough so you shouldn't be blindsided. I don't want to brag and I don't think it's imposing or berating. The humour obviously is either shared and liked or not your type, but I wouldn't want to cut it completely just because of that ;)

Sep 17, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

Ah, and I should've looked at the front page, I absolutely didn't realize it's the third Necronomicon deck on there right now, I just spontaniously posted it after another repeat of the question. The video itself is over 2,5 months old.

Sep 17, 2020 Ektheleon · 24

"you should keep this deck in #whinging-it" is exactly as dumb of a take as "you should keep this deck in #deck-tech"

The channel divisions set up on Discord servers only apply to those specific discord servers, that seems like a pretty basic "how do websites work 101" rule.

Sep 17, 2020 josephmeleca · 1

@EktheleonNobody said to keep the deck to himself or to keep in #whinging-it. Don't be a Seeker shamer who plays Seekers.

Sep 17, 2020 PaxCecilia · 31

The more you post the longer this stays on the front page!

Sep 17, 2020 chirubime · 1984

@Cuherdir LOL it is the 3rd Necro Seeker build on the front page xD but that's really my fault for putting 2 up around the same time. Minh Scavenging Necronomicon was too busted... so I wanted to tone it down with a Daisy one that was recently and tried to keep the reuse of Necro a little more finite and thematic.

I really really shouldn't add another unneeded opinion regarding the whole comment section debacle, but I did feel like a lot of us people who liked seekers were afraid to speak up on the Mythosbusters discord because a vocal few liked to denounce various things regarding certain cards/abilities the class had access to. It was really nice that they created a separate channel so that not everyone had to partake in that discussion.

However, the hate comments are really uncalled for. While I can understand where they were coming from, with older members posting the custom cards (they really shut down any seeker appreciation), don't be rude to other people sharing decks @josephmeleca.

Sep 17, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

@chirubime I mean to be fair, it's the single most impactful card of the whole bunch of 168 new cards we got! (read impactful as you want. Could read broken, overpowered, problematic etc)

It's absolutely unsurprising people post decks centered around it. And your decks look pretty neat.

Sep 18, 2020 Saej · 1506

In before lock.

Sep 18, 2020 Soloclue · 1700

What follows is my personal opinion

Ok, I kept hearing about this legendary deck in the MB Discord and now that I know it's a 45 xp deck that uses pretty much all your deck space on slamming all the fast/free draw tech in Seeker in the same deck at the same time, with DoN/Three Aces and cycling KIP/Necro, I'm not as impressed as I imagined I would be. Obviously, if you put all the fast/free draw tech in at the same time you will draw through your whole deck - the way it was described, I thought it was more than that. For the kind of play experiences that I enjoy, this just doesn't sound super fun to me. And, based on the way previous conversations had gone, I thought that this sort of deck tech could still be reconciled with the kind of play experiences I would want to be having. The reason I thought that is because this deck keeps getting compared to other ideas or points brought up people in a way that eclipses those ideas, and the fact they get compared makes me presume they must also exist in the same lane. And, I don't think this level of card pool exploitation where you trivialize a lot of the difficulty of the game exists in the same lane as these other decks/card interactions I alluded to earlier.

I know people enjoy pushing the boundaries of things, but this level of deck interaction definitely reads as being game-breaking on purpose and that verges into un-fun territory for me. I know in the olden times there was that Infinite Jenny deck, and that sounded un-fun to me too (as I understand the engine of that deck was also promptly Taboo'd). Again, what has bothered me is that when other investigators, including other Seekers are brought up, this type of deck gets brought up as something to overshadow those other investigators' strengths. Like saying "Harvey can use this or that to draw 3 or 4 cards", and then to get a response like "well, Mandy can draw her entire deck in comparison", was always a non-starter for me and even moreso now that I know what this deck actually is.

Anyway, I think it's cool that you did this and I'm glad I have actually seen what it is. It's just not the kind of deck I would enjoy playing personally. Thank you for sharing, Cuherdir. (This is Bryan by the way, in case you don't know my ArkhamDB name.)

Sep 18, 2020 DerBK · 14

The more you post the longer this stays on the front page!

I'm helping!

Sep 18, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

this level of deck interaction definitely reads as being game-breaking on purpose

No worries, it 100% is. @Soloclue

This is the 45 xp version of cramming all the things into one deck disregarding any consideration about wanting to take a balanced approach to the game, it literally crams in several different broken engines into the same deck. The 9 xp version can easily get to "draw 22+" as well, this is pretty much the worst case in the 45 xp version. One 9 xp version that also is a solo deck is the beginning of the playthrough that ended with this monstrosity if you want to see that on video.

Obviously that's something many wouldn't enjoy playing and that's no problem at all.

And btw, not only is Jenny infinity still viable, any rogue can theoretically go infinite and even this deck probably can, probably not to true infinity. I'm just not interested in mapping it out as indeed I dislike playing infinite degeneracy myself as well. I happily play something like this once in a while to get to the limits of the game, but at least you're still playing, not saying "setup done, I win".

Oh and lastly: Heya Bryan, keep the memes going! Or make an article about any of your frustrations :D

Sep 18, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

Aaand I just realized I should've added Mag Glasses (1) to this deck for infinite Necronomicon Sleighting within the same turn...

Sep 18, 2020 mattastrophic · 1706

It's kind of impressive, how much gravy is on this train. A lot of that 45XP isn't really necessary to get this deck out of the station.

Also... any objections to #banthebook?

Sep 18, 2020 Next_Level_Plays · 1131

"Ban the Book & Nerf Rook" sounds like a good slogan :)

Sep 18, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

"Ban the Book and nerf the Rook" has a better ring to it. It's missing like 10 other cards though :P

Sep 18, 2020 Kristian · 2

How is Hallowed Mirror in the deck with Rogue as secondary class? Also, is there a 0 xp version of the deck?

Sep 18, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

@Kristian 1) Versatile 2) not of this one, I started with this 9 XP deck due to the rules I was playing alongside with

Sep 18, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

I wouldn’t consider this a good deck in multiplayer. I’m sure, if you’re playing with real people, they want to also do their turn someday.

Sep 18, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

But seriously,
I agree with @Soloclue, that this definitely isn’t a playstyle everyone enjoys, maybe because its also very complicated, and not at all casual. And at this point I’m happy that this game is cooperative, and not competitive. Because this in competitive ... I don’t want to think about it.
In the history of this game there has surely been a few decks that can definitely be considered OP. Decks like: Keys of Ys Yorick, Skeiths Infinte Jenny deck, and the straightforward Higher Ed Rex Milan. And like all of these, I think MJ will literally whack it with Taboo (like he did with Skeiths deck, through nerfing QT, Donut and Streetwise and every part of the Rex combo).
This deck also has a few weaknesses that just completely kill it. Things like Doomed, Sell Your Soul and Through the Gates (@Cuherdir will fight me on every of those, but they’ll sure cause more brain wrinkling then the normal play of this deck).

I’m sure the 50-Card option is also a possibility, if you’re looking for a more casual approach to this deck.

Sep 18, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

Infinite Jenny is as viable as ever

Sep 18, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

And no, I'm not fighting you, I just forgot to mention Doomed and Through the gates in the description. Sell your soul can be another headache, but it's possible to be built around, just really annoyingly so and if you screw up even once...

Yeah, all the weaknesses I hate :P To be clear, I do hate those in non-degenerate decks, I dislike massively swingy weaknesses and non-interactive ones

Sep 18, 2020 DAAAN · 1

@Lord Triloth infinite jenny if anything has got better thanks to the new investigator decks, and Wini is just as capable of doing it thanks to Versatile.

New toys:


Manual dex 2

Will to survive 0


Sep 18, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

I'll give you that on Jenny. I quess it just costs more xp now to get the combo running. I haven't looked into her in a while.

I'm still a bit sceptic on Sell Your Soul, though. With the asterix that I haven't played it yet, I think that Sell your Soul can still be very dangerous, if you cycle your deck (how often per scenario is it, I stopped counting while watching) often. Allot of scenarios have encounter cards/game effects that can suddenly discard your hand. This not mentioning also having Paranoia in your deck. You have Forewarned, ok, but I think this game can always find a way to suck up your resources.

Sep 18, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

Thinking more about Forewarned though, I quess this will handle most non-weakness treacheries. So the only real possiblity to harm it effectively is some wierd Weakness combos, that only appears if you become really unlucky.

Sep 18, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

Another option is a annoying card from Shocking Discovery, when Forewarned is already used for this turn, but then you'd need to still draw into Sell Your Soul.

Sep 18, 2020 DAAAN · 1

I have a similar Mandy deck that is tooled up for multiplayer that is running through Carcosa at the moment. She is so monstrously overpowered that the group have started calling her the Queen in Yellow, though she isn't doing any nonsense with the book.

We just finished the pallid mask she lost all her resources multiple times in a row thanks to treacheries, every time she was back to double digits resources by the end of the round.

Sep 18, 2020 Soloclue · 1700

@Cuherdir Thanks for your reply. I'm glad we had this interaction because I feel like I understand your comments much better, now that I have more context for them.

Sep 18, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

Happy to help and to answer questions :D

Sep 20, 2020 Ark1 · 1

Hi I havent played for a few years, but I have a question. How is it that we can now post 3 copies of cards ? I cant find reference to any rule. What allows you to run three copies ? Thanks in advance.

Sep 20, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

@Ark1 it's the new "Myriad" keyword, those cards can be used thrice in a deck.

Sep 21, 2020 chirubime · 1984

@Cuherdir i just realized since you're running 2 Sleight of Hand, i wonder if you should find a slot for a Backpack(2). Cuz then you can Sleight of hand down the backpack, search for all 3 segments of onyx within 12-15 cards as Mandy. play the segments out and return the Backpack to your hand. Your first Sleight of Hand of course goes to the Necronomicon

Sep 21, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

Wait! You can Sleight non-handslot Items?
Oh, it’s the Taboo that specifies Items that take up “less then two handslots”
I never noticed that.

Sep 21, 2020 Ark1 · 1

a2cuherdir Thank you for the reply

Sep 22, 2020 StanKpop · 1

Got no time for haters 모두 다 집어치워 버려

Stan Everglow

Sep 22, 2020 Shiro1981 · 1

Just don't look behind curtains

Sep 24, 2020 crusificton · 2

I'm going to try this for TCU Ironman now.

Sep 25, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

So you don't like your teammates then? :P

Sep 25, 2020 CuherdirsMom · 1

You're a good son.

Sep 26, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

I have the feeling that we have a few more `@Cuherdir’s here then there should be.
A bit like in TDE with all those cats, Randolphs and Crawling Chaoses

Sep 26, 2020 Swekyde · 41

A friend built a deck that was similar to this but it didn't bother with Versatile, and it was before the starter decks so no Necro/upgraded Perceptions.

Instead of taking multiple actions in a single turn and trying to Three Aces every one of them, it just used Decipher Reality or Guiding Stones to discover an obscene amount of clues at once, and handle the clue gathering duties of an entire 4 player group alone.

We completely farmed Return to TFA on Hard as a result of it.

Sep 27, 2020 Cambeul · 1

Since you have already added Versatile to your deck, have you thought about using Premonition to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket and pulling the Auto Fail?

Sep 27, 2020 DAAAN · 1

It's not necessary when you have 3 aces. Besides, most of the important broken stuff is testless.

Sep 27, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

If anything, it'd be either Pnakotic or Will to Survive. You Brute force through the autofail because the Donut strategy already is only one of your eggs in addition to all the free triggered or fast testless draw you're fielding.

The more interesting addition would be Magnifying Glass (2) to kick the Necronomicon into your discard pile and re-sleight it as much as you want on your turn or take YOMO (and likely Charisma) to get someone else's Joey (3) and profit of the book. Or include something like Inspiring Presence if you really want that other Versatile and keep Mirror like this version. That let's you re-use Rook easier during your turn

Sep 29, 2020 Jaxtrasi · 14

I'm Cuherdir and so's my wife!

Sep 29, 2020 toastsushi · 62

I'm Makima on the MB discord and I just wanted to bump this deck up (yet again) due to how hilarious it is.

Oct 13, 2020 Oriflam · 39

Fun deck! A couple of questions:

  • Why shrewd Analysis and Relic Hunter?
  • I am trying to make it work at 30 cards (without versatile): do you think it could combo reliably with only one double or nothing, sleight of hand and quick thinking? I don't mind if it's not as game-breaking.
  • Do you think Abigail (with Charisma of course) could work ? She's a free use of the Necronomicon and maybe some soak. Also comboes with Knowledge is power I believe.

Oct 13, 2020 DAAAN · 1

Relic hunter is so you can equip pendant of the queen and hallowed mirror.

Versatile is definitely worth it. Once your draw density gets high enough you don't notice the extra 5 cards and you don't bother including it until you need it.

Abigail is not worth it. She doesn't bypass fast action costs.

Oct 13, 2020 DAAAN · 1

Buy I have no idea why shrewd analysis.

Oct 13, 2020 Oriflam · 39

Ah the pendant of course, thanks :)

Good catch on Abigail, that's too bad...

One last thing: OP says you can use 3 aces or the pendant + quick thinking + double or nothing to get 2 actions back. I though that was not possible since "automatically succredding" prevents the triggering of the "success by 2" mechanic?

Oct 13, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

I quess Shrewd is only there, because it can be. It alwyas looks good to have more things in the permanent section.

Oct 13, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

Automatic Success, means you succeed “as if” the test difficulty is zero. So if your skil value is at least 2, you trigger Quicky Thinkings.

Oct 13, 2020 DAAAN · 1

Three aces doesn't subvert succeed by 2. There is a difference between doing something without a test, and automatically succeeding a test. The former doesn't allow any skill commits or calculate a check outcome. The latter allows skill commits, generates a check outcome and critically sets the difficulty of the test to zero. This is particularly relevant if you are doing three aces nonsense with archaic glyphs: guiding stones. It let me, for example, use knowledge is power + three aces + higher education to pick up 9 clues without taking an action or drawing a token.

Oct 13, 2020 Oriflam · 39

Thanks, I was confused because an "auto-evade" for example is not considered a success as there is no skill test... But an auto-success is :)

Oct 13, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

@Oriflam sooo just to clarify it as well:

  • Shrewd analasys is free, I just include it anywhere I can without wasting offclass slots. In this deck no, it does nothing for you.
  • indeed, Abigail does absolutely nothing for you apart from holding your book without the handslot
  • yes, it works without Versatile, I just wouldn't cut on Sleight unless you play it at least once per turn reliably anyways. But as you say you don't mind it not being as game-breaking: yes, of course it works beautifully anyways, it's a deck with several different degenerate combos, you can cut some slack and it'll still outperform normal decks easily. Tbf, I wouldn't bring something like this to multiplayer myself unless bringing op crazyness is our goal.

Oct 15, 2020 Cambeul · 1

When you automatically succeed at a test, the test difficulty is considered 0. This means that you succeed by an amount equal to your modified skill value.

For example: I'm playing as Sefina who has combat 2. I use the Sawed-Off Shotgun (previewed here, it's a weapon with no combat boost), commit three copies of Three Aces and a copy of Quick Thinking (each of these skills has a single Wild icon).

Because I do not reveal a chaos token and automatically succeed, I count up my skill value (2 + 4 = 6, in this instance) and compare to the difficulty of 0. So I succeed by 6.

Oct 17, 2020 GWItheUltimate · 1

This deck just got absolutely destroyed by the new taboo list update.

Oct 17, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

Yeah, and I love it.

I only count +20 XP though, +14 if you count Donut as being 3 cheaper :P

(that and a direct hit to 2 combos in the deck that just don't work anymore + Quick Thinking only once per round. It's glorious)

Oct 18, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

I think the challenge with the new taboo is the campaign aspect.

The first 8 xp will probably go to Rook, which is probably the first two-three scenarios. Scenarios that you need to win without Pendant, Necronomicon and all the other good stuff. And in my experience you struggle to win and gain loads of xp in scenarios without Rook.

I think you should feel proud that your deck was the main target of the new Taboo list.

Oct 18, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

Tbf, 8 XP more often than not should be 1-2 scenarios but I get what you're saying.

I think all the taboo entries are well deserved so I really like the list. I do think some other cards like Cryptic Writings (2), Crack the Case, Perception (2), Practice Makes Perfect, Astounding Revelation or Dream Diary upgrades could still use some +1 XP chaining to bring them in line with non-Seeker counterparts but the worst offenders got hit so that's good. And damage stones got spared.

Oct 18, 2020 Lord Triloth · 324

Not if you're playing Dunwich lol

Oct 18, 2020 Cuherdir · 432

You can get some XP in the first two, it's just already less than in other campaigns on average and it only gets worse. Idk, play mystic Mandy and Delve?

Oct 18, 2020 GWItheUltimate · 1

Yes. It's just beautiful how almost every target of the new list targets something in your deck. You created a monster I guess lol.

And I agree, it's very nice that now we all have to play Mandy completely different.